➡ Many people are leaving California due to high living costs and strict regulations. They are moving to states like Florida and Idaho, where the cost of living is lower and the rules are less strict. This is causing California to lose a lot of its population, including young professionals who could have been future leaders. The people leaving are mostly conservative and are looking for places that align with their beliefs.
➡ A Florida-based business is seeing a lot of people moving from states like Illinois, New York, and California. These people are looking for services and businesses that share their values, especially when making big changes like moving. The business also noticed that companies from conservative states are working together more. Lastly, they’ve seen a trend of people moving to places where they feel their values are respected and where they won’t be overwhelmed by taxes and rules.
➡ Small business owners in the US are feeling uncertain about the economy, even though the stock market is doing well. They’re worried because the cost of goods is going up and they’re having to be careful with their spending. Some people are moving to states like Texas and Florida where they feel there’s more economic freedom. There’s concern that the federal government might try to balance things out by taking money from these states.
➡ A man is working hard to create a better world for his kids by supporting two platforms, Public Square and Red Balloon. These platforms are meant to help businesses and people who love their country. Public Square is a place for businesses that share the same values, and Red Balloon helps people find jobs at companies that won’t judge them. The goal is to encourage more people to take action and make a difference in their country.

I’ll tell you a funny story, Dr. Steve. When we actually arrived in Florida about six months ago, we sat at a restaurant at the second night there, and the waitress said, hey, are y’all ever been to this restaurant before? We said, no, we haven’t. We’re really glad to be here. We just moved to the area. And she said, where’d you move from? With this sort of timid feel in her voice? And we said, we came from California.

And she goes, oh, no. I said, I promise we’re the good kind. Hey, gang, it’s me, doc. Steve. So do you know any leftugs? Right. People were fleeing blue states for red states. And I’m thinking particularly of those escaping woke California and moving to your red state. That number is growing astronomically. So much so that California, for the first time ever, is actually losing a congressional seat. And it’s not hard to see why a former Goldman Sachs executive is sounding the alarm on the unsustainable costs of living that plague California.

For example, to live a normal, comfortable life in the Bay Area, where I spent a lot of my summers with extended family, you have to be making at least $280,000 a year. But the problem is that the average salary in California is around $73,000. In fact, despite virtue signaling as the champions of wokeness, the wealth disparity in California is more akin to Guatemala Honduras than it is Sweden or Norway.

But that hasn’t stopped biden in trying to take the California model nationwide, in driving up consumer prices across the board by an unprecedented 17%. But the glory in all of this, as you know, is that such woke incompetence is actually awakening a flourishing parallel economy all across the nation, where patriots are rising up to build a vibrant economic order based on faith, family and freedom. And I’m joined today by two of the top patriots working to build that parallel economy, connecting patriotic consumers and employers with equally patriotic producers and employers.

So Andrew Krabuchetz, founder of Red Balloon, America’s foremost anti woke jobs board, and Michael Seifert, founder of Public Square, which is now functioning as the largest online marketplace within the burgeoning parallel economy. So, gents, welcome as always. Great to have you back. Thanks for having us, Steve. It’s good to be here. Yeah, well, it’s great to see you guys again. You’re always a breath of fresh air in the midst of all of this insanity.

I must say, andrew, you yourself fled Silicon Valley and relocated to gorgeous northern Idaho. Very deep red northern Idaho. The chimney of Idaho as well. Although you got that funny little blue patch in Moscow where you are, which is very funny, Michael, you’re still suffering for the lord there, doing your best to fight the good fight. Under gruesome Newsom, we thought we may have been seeing the left Ug flight peak a couple of years back, but California continues to hemorrhage about 100,000 residents a year.

We’re seeing comparable numbers in New York, New Jersey, Illinois in terms of their per capita percentages. Andrew, just let me start with you. Since you’re in a red state that Californians are fleeing to in droves, what are you hearing from the refugees? Is it the cost of living that they’re leaving? Is it the oppressive woke regulations? Is it a combo of the two? What are you hearing that’s still driving this exodus from California? Yeah, good question, Steve.

And honestly, as we’re talking to these businesses, taxes are the biggest thing that’s driving all of this. And as people move from California up to Idaho, we say, you are very welcome. Please wipe the blue off your shoes on the way in and don’t vote the way that you wrecked the state that you’re trying to move from. And actually, an interesting stat on California. I mean, we see the population movement that’s known, but there’s also this interesting category of kind of bellwethers for an economy.

If you look at young professionals who are making over $100,000 a year. So if you’re under 30 years old and making over $100,000 a year, there’s a high likelihood that you’re going to be a significant driver of an economy because you’re going to be a business leader. You’re probably more innovative, you’re probably more driven than a lot of individuals. So 30 under 100,000. And California over the years generally loses between 51 hundred people in that category, net.

So they get some in, they get some to leave. So you have a net out migration of 50 to 100 a year in 2021 as people dealt with COVID and then kind of relax from that craziness and they’re like, where am I living? Over 8000 of these people under 30 over year earning over $100,000 a year moved out of net, moved out of the state of California. So these are the people who are going to be the leaders of the economy, the leaders of business out in the future.

And a lot of them, as they were kind of on their way out with their family, packed up in their Porsche or whatever, you move in when you’re that person. They said, taxes are driving us nuts. There’s literally no way to live and to grow a business in a state that is taxing you to death. So I think that’s the biggest driver. As we talk to businesses around the country, that’s the story we’re hearing consistently, and that’s going to have enormous implication in the next 10, 15, 20 years, without question for their own economy.

How about you, Michael? What’s the word? What are you hearing in the underground resistance there in California? Steve, I got to tell you, we actually left California as well. We are political refugees, and we have recently moved our business to the sunny state of Florida. Wow, you did it. I remember you telling me this the last time we chatted that you were thinking of doing or you were in the process.

All right, so you’re done. You’ve abrahammed out of Canaan there, I guess I should say. Yeah. Early Chaldees. Yep. And Florida feels like the promised land. It is a wonderful, wonderful state full of very business friendly policies. And ultimately, at the end of the day, we understand, Andrew understands the plight of starting a business and growing it with financial stewardship at the helm. And there are enough challenges already in starting and creating a business and growing it to fruition to become a profit generator and serving your customers with integrity and excellence.

The last thing we need is extra burdensome policies from our state officials, adding red tape to the mix. That is not what anybody wants to be thinking about as they’re trying to grow their business. This is why California consistently is ranked 50th out of 50 in terms of states to grow and start a business in, while states like Florida and Idaho are consistently in the top ten. And I’ll tell you a funny story, Dr.

Steve. When we actually arrived in Florida about six months ago, we sat at a restaurant about the second night there, and the waitress said, hey, are you all ever been to this restaurant before? We said, no, we haven’t. We’re really glad to be here. We just moved to the area. And she said, where’d you move from? With this sort of timid feel in her voice? And we said, we came from California.

And she goes, oh, no. I said, I promise we’re the good kind. And she said, you know what? It actually has been refreshing. She feels like most of the people that have been migrating to Florida from California and other states like New York, Connecticut or New Jersey are largely conservative. And so while it’s obviously important to affirm the message of don’t California my Florida or don’t California my Idaho, the good news is it seems like many of the folks that are leaving are not just leaving because of economic challenges in these blue states.

They are also leaving to migrate toward a state that more aligns with their own personal convictions. Yeah, absolutely. And we have some interesting data. Actually. I’m curious on what you’ve got in terms of even in blue states. We’re seeing the blue counties losing population and the red counties growing in population. And even in red states like Florida and Idaho and Texas, the blue counties are losing population and the red counties are growing in population.

So it’s even at the micro seen. I could actually be curious if I have to send some of this data that I found over to you guys to see what you think. I’m curious the data that you have, because you’ve got really front, I mean, user to the second data here. Michael, based on the data you’ve seen, have you noticed any trends of people utilizing public square in tandem with sort of this shift from blue state to red state or even blue county to Red county? Are you seeing any kind of connection with people who are using public square and they’re physically sort of relocating to red states, this burgeoning sort of MAGA states of America? We certainly have.

Case in point, there’s actually a great moving company on our platform called Blue Line Moving. And this is a great company that’s actually based here in Florida that supports our first responders with a portion of their profits. It’s an incredible business and we’re proud to support them. They’ve been able to share with us from the ground that they are seeing exodus out of Illinois, New York, and California more than anywhere else.

In fact, he went as far as to say that New York, California and Illinois have largely built his new traffic to his business over the past two. You know, I think that folks are also seeing that there’s a need to align with service providers or real estate agents or any of these sort of high trust industries as they’re conducting a big life change, like a migration or a move.

And so we’ve heard on the ground from our real estate agents, from different doctors actually share that they’re picking up new patients that are acting as political refugees from these different blue states. And we’re a good example of this. When we moved to Florida, we wanted to find a pediatrician. We wanted to find a pediatrician that would respect our family’s medical convictions related to things like vaccines or medications, for example.

And thankfully, we found a great doctor that loves freedom. She’s a Christian, so she aligns with her own personal convictions and she’s a licensed MD that’s practiced in the state of Florida for 20 years, and we found her on public square. You’re seeing time and time again families are heading into a new environment. They’re getting planted, and they want to partner with people that they can trust because of that values alignment.

The last thing I’ll mention, Dr. Steve, is that we are also seeing on public square businesses from red states partnering with businesses from other red states instead of some of their blue state neighbors. A great example, we actually heard recently about a roofing company in Alabama that partnered with a contracting company for different supplies to build roofs in Ohio, and both of them were on public square. So not only are we helping serve the consumers, but there were actually businesses that are partnered with other businesses across red state lines, creating these sort of red economic zones and these partnerships cross state lines.

It’s been wonderful to be able to facilitate that. And I know, obviously, Andrew’s seen a lot of that in the jobs market where people are heavily factoring in where they live and the type of jurisdiction that they’re under as they’re looking at new jobs. So it’s been interesting to have a front row seat to watch this migration play out in real time. It’s been very enlightening. That’s awesome.

Yeah. How about you, Andrew? Yeah, absolutely. It’s interesting you talk about the population growth, because population growth isn’t just from people moving, although the big sort is happening all over the country. People are moving where their values are going to be respected, where they’re not going to be eaten alive by taxes and regulation. That’s absolutely happening. But also conservatives, christians, we’re having babies, which is why it’s so awesome that Michael’s company and his wife have founded this every life business to help support all of the babies that are coming out of this freedom economy as well.

And I actually think that’s a really interesting trend because we have a culture in this freedom economy where people love life. They love to see life created. They don’t love this culture of death. And then you have places in Illinois and New York and California where part of the thing that people are fleeing is this culture of death. And so I think that’s also going to be an interesting trend.

And look, that’s a long game, right? Obviously, you have a baby today. They’re not going to have a huge impact on the economy for quite some time, except that they do need diapers, they do need wipes. And I love that Michael’s kind of come alongside because a lot of the diaper companies, maybe all the diaper companies, Michael, would know this better, were really supporting abortion or coming out to both financially and social media and everything else.

And that’s horrible. I mean, in what world do you want your business to have fewer customers? So that’s a really interesting trend that we’re seeing. And then obviously at red Balloon, we have the highest portion of job seekers who are willing to move in California, New York, no surprise. And the highest portion of businesses that are looking to hire, looking to grab great people in Florida and New York.

So the job market is happening. We’re just seeing this shift. And those are economic actors, right? Those are people that are going to come and they’re going to produce revenue for their business and revenue for their state, which I think will be an interesting trend as budgets start to come out based on this movement and activity. Fantastic. That’s just brilliant. And again, I love how you’re factoring in the long game there.

The demographic advantage we have just from the very fact of our values of faith, family and freedom, as opposed to liberal lifestyle values that really actually entail their own demise. Ironically, I think one scholar calls it liberalism’s demographic contradiction. It entails the freedom not to reproduce. And if you have a worldview that doesn’t reproduce itself, I wouldn’t invest long term in it, by the way. This is why they are pushing illegal immigration as they are, of course, a loosening of the border.

In fact, this was the most startling statistic to me to capitalize on both of your points here. Just put a fine point on it. There were more illegal migrants crossing the border in the month of December than native born Americans being born. Wow. So when you look at that, you think, okay, I get it. I see what they’re trying to do. Their ideology is one of depopulation. They know they can’t keep up because their people are not having babies.

So they’re just going to import the cannon fodder that they need to continue winning elections and keep the regime in power. It is startling to your point, and it’s why we need to fight that population battle and continue to not only reproduce the earth and repopulate it with lots of conservative, truth believing babies that value faith, family and freedom, but we also need to keep a tight grip on our border because otherwise we allow for their plan ultimately to run rampant without inhibition.

Right? Yeah. A lot of people don’t realize even the church has very strong borders. It’s called baptism. Not everyone just gets to flood in and do what they want. There are very strict boundaries and borders. You always have to have that if you’re going to have any kind of identity in any sense of way. I was fascinated. Even Elon Musk now is really tweeting that out of late after this border bill came out and she said, this is just a Democrat repopulation revoter plan.

This is ridiculous. It’s so obvious, though. Absolutely. No, it’s good. It looks like pretty much a supermajority of finally getting it. And they’re getting the sense it’s not just the voters, it’s also the donor class wanting cheap labor as well. It kills two birds with 1 st. It’s really disgusting and horrible. You release a monthly freedom economy index report. This is great, gang. Just click on the link below.

The links below. You’re going to be able to avail yourselves of this. This is an incredible resource, the Freedom Economy Index report. Can you tell us a bit about what you’re seeing at the beginning of 2024? Any trends? Yeah, I’ll start with this, and then, Michael, I’ll do play by play. You can do color commentary. So we see a couple of things. We see a little bit of an uptick in optimism about the economy, which was actually kind of interesting.

I think maybe that’s an election year coming. I think maybe people have made it through winter and they’re like, okay, maybe we can survive this thing. And I think it’s just an indication of Americans who have this hardworking, puritan, work ethic kind of mindset of like, okay, well, the government’s doing lots of bad things to me, but I’m going to take responsibility for me and my house now.

That’s the good news. So we see a little bit of uptick in optimism. We did see one of the most interesting trends is one in three of our businesses said that they had to take out debt last year just to survive. So they had to take on debt for their business just to keep life and limb together. And the vast majority of them said that they are going to try and really be fiscally responsible this year.

Over 40% of them saying they’re going to try and cut out much of their business travel. They’re going to try and make fewer capital investments for the future. This is not a good sign for the US economy because we want businesses that are taking risks, that are going out and creating economic activity that is a blessing to other people. And obviously, we’re hitting all these businesses in all of the states as we talk about in this freedom Economy index, which is a wonderful opportunity to hear the voice of the kind of the unheard man who is out there just trying to run their small business, be the lifeblood of the US economy.

But those were kind of the two interesting trends. Little more optimism, but definitely had to take on debt. And a lot of these businesses are going to be really careful going into 2024 with their expenses. Michael, what do you think? Yeah, I think the only thing I’d add is just a high level thematic point, which is that it seems as if these business owners feel like this entire economy right now is a bit of a house of cards.

We see these headlines that come across saying the S and P 500 hit record highs and stock market is rallying, but it feels like a facade. When what we’re finding in our freedom Economy index, the price of goods from the supplier to these different businesses continue to escalate. So people are saying inflation is tempered and we’ve got things under control. We’re hearing that there’s this burgeoning job market, but our businesses are saying, as the lifeblood of the country, main street, they’re saying that they’re having to tighten down right now.

And so it feels as if we’re in China, honestly, where the government puts out certain numbers, but the people scratch their heads and say, I don’t see it, I don’t understand. And so I think what you’re finding represented in the halls of Washington DC, on Park Avenue in New York City, might not actually indicate the health of what’s really going on in our economy. Business owners are struggling, and thank God they’re resilient, because our country relies upon Main street.

We’re glad to serve them. But if we don’t look past just whatever the government’s willing to tell us and actually dig into the data ourselves, we’re going to base a lot of prescriptions or ideas or solutions on faulty information. And so what we’re trying to do is get as close to the ground as possible. And as we do, we learn more than ever the need to support the types of businesses that you’re going to find in your local community.

They need. Yeah, yeah. It’s so sad they do that. They fudge the numbers line. So for I came across, it was a trend in the Soviet Union that scholars call hyper reality. At the end of the Soviet Union, when the pull up bureau would say, oh, the economy is going great, and the people just watching their one channel black and white tvs, just going, looking around the house going, we don’t even have enough crumbs for mice.

What are they talking about? All it does is it contributes to the further delegitimation of the establishment and the state. And look at what happened to the Soviet Union. It just eventually implodes. Talking about living off a debt, the debt of trust and things like that. I’m curious. We’ve got people like, so you’re embodying this. You’re refugees yourselves. We got Joe Rogan leaving California, Elon Musk. Now, they both ended up in Texas.

Which states are there? Maybe like a handful of states that you’re seeing making up most of this freedom migration that we’re seeing. Yeah, I mean, you can see the population change is going Texas, Florida. And in fact, if you look at all of the states, it’s pretty one sided. Idaho is actually doing well. Montana, Utah, even Arizona, even north and South Carolina and South Dakota. North Carolina in.

Yeah, you’re seeing growth in these different areas, and it’s not surprising. It shouldn’t be surprising to, you know, imagine yourself in a hostile environment and you know that there’s a better environment somewhere else. Well, what are you going to do? You’re going to go there. And what’s interesting is that it is going to drive, and I mentioned this earlier, it’s going to drive significant tax revenue for these places.

You see something like $34 billion of annual taxable income moved into Florida in one year with the most recent IRS data, $34 billion of annual taxable income moving into Florida. Because these are hardworking conservatives, the people who are going to show up, do their job and earn good money. Where’s that coming from? From Illinois, New York, California. Well, what’s that going to do? It’s going to drive state budgets into the ground in those left states, and it’s going to give surpluses in the red states.

And what I’m most concerned about is the federal government is going to say, okay, well, the way that we’re going to even the playing field as they want to do with everything else is they’re going to robin, do that with the States. Right. They’re going to Robin Hood all the hardworking conservatives who have moved to those red states. So I think that’s an upcoming battle, but it’s an encouraging trend.

Florida is going to have money in their budget and New York’s not. And it’s going to start to cause major socioeconomic impact on those states. Absolutely. All the hospital research. And so it’s all going to be coming down. It’s already come down to Texas, particularly Houston area. Yeah, it’s all just going to start migrating south and into the Sunbelt and red states and the like. Michael, do you think we’re seeing.

In a sense, I’m thinking of how the republican states are all aligning around Texas. You had Abbot Greg Abbott with the 14 governors. There’s more, 27 states altogether, but 14 republican governors standing around him in solidarity defending the border. Are we seeing a kind of like a map forming of almost a freedom economic zone, as it were, of all of these, almost like a superstate of MAGA red states kind of coming together where the parallel economy is? I mean, it’s literally tangibly geographically being seen on a map.

Is that too abstract or. You get my point there. It’s not too abstract. And it’s actually a part of a bigger, more philosophical point that our country is largely breaking into economically, politically, demographically. We’re finding that some of the states that embrace freedom attract a different cohort of folks that want to live their lives a certain way than some of the coastal liberals do. And so as time goes on, you see this balkanization happen where folks are finding their communities, they’re finding their people, they’re hunkering down, they’re supporting each other politically, they’re supporting each other in their school boards and their city councils.

They’re banding together on issues related to economics. And we’re finding that also in our data, some of the most populated regions on public square are these larger cities in red states. So Dallas is our largest city. Raleigh is a very significant city. South Florida is a very broad region on public square in terms of consumer members and business representation. And while I get excited about the idea of people finding their people, I really do.

I also think it’s something that we have to be aware that the federal government will push back against this over time, and we need to be prepped for that. We know that DC, as they witness their power structures, become more decentralized because these different red states are standing up and taking ownership for their own stuff. And, Sam, we don’t really need the federal government anymore. Texas is basically making the claim that, hey, we’re one of the top ten most powerful economies in the world as a state ourselves, and we are first citizens of our state.

I mean, this is very jeffersonian language and I get excited about it, but I also think we need to have a sober look in the mirror to say, where is our country actually at? Where is it going? And we need to stop with this facade that 340,000,000 people are all going to get along perfectly. And we need to start saying we have to protect these states rights. Because if we lose these states rights on the altar of just letting the federal government run loose, then we’re really going to have our lash bastion of freedom.

We can’t lose these red states staying as red as they are. And if we think, if we’re naive and think that the left’s not going to come and try to destroy that opportunity, we’ve got another thing coming. Actually, that’s a great lift off for my question for Andrew, because I’ve been getting this from other people. They want me to ask you this. Okay. We all know you’re working closely with Donald Trump Jr.

And we’re just curious, do you have any insights into what some of the plans are for Trump to reverse this insanity, especially the failing economy? I mean, it looks like he’s at this point as there’s no shenanigans he’s running away with. Seen when we really dig into the polls, we’ve never seen polls like this. For a Republican. This is crazy. He is rocking. You getting any word what they have mean? They keep their cards pretty close.

And Michael gets to work with him. He was down at shot show with Don Jr. As they, and it is amazing what that family is able to pull off. Don Jr. Is an incredible individual. Right. We see his public Persona, but he works really hard, right. And he has every opportunity to not work hard. They’re financially set. But part of the reason he’s been a big supporter of public square and of red balloon is because of his kids.

And he’s been very clear about that. He says, I want to build a world and a country that my kids can live in, can thrive in, can prosper in, and that I can leave and be proud of. And unfortunately, we’ve been on a trend for the last several years where that’s not the case. And I just have a lot of respect for a man who says, you know what, it’s not the money.

They’re doing just fine. He’s helping push on public square and red balloon because he cares about America and he cares about a world that’s going to be great for his kids. And anyone who is willing to sign up for that, no matter what disagreements we have, I think we have a very clear and important goal in front of us, and it is to save this nation. And we’re going to save it economically.

We’re going to save it by living our values out loud and being brave, because everyone who is brave gives courage to everyone around them. And so we need more Americans to strap in, get off the couch, stop watching Fox News and wringing your hands and go do something. Support a business on public square. Tell people about red balloon and go and vote and make a difference in the country by your actions, not by just sitting there and worrying about what’s going to happen.

And I think that’s what Don and what I love about what he’s pushing on. And it’s going to be really interesting how this year plays. Yeah. Courage is right. It’s the number one of the classical four virtues. Without courage, you can’t defend the other three. That’s the idea. How can our audience get plugged into red balloon and public square right now? What can they do? Well, starting with Public Square, we can head to Publicsquare.

com. That’s your one stop shop for all things patriot economy. If you love the country, the constitution and the values, ultimately that that wonderful document protects, Publicsquare. com is your go to. If you’re a business owner, you can actually sign up your business for free there as well. And we’d love to have you. We have nearly 80,000 vendors on the platform that have all aligned with our core values.

That way, you know, as a consumer with blessed assurance that you’re not going to fund your opposition. So Publicsquare. com is the best place to get started. And we’d love for you to join the parallel economy there. Yeah. And redballoon work because we think work is good and it is dignifying for the soul to work hard. And so redballoon work is where you can find jobs of companies that will not judge you every time you come into the office.

And if you are a business, it is terrifying to hire in America today, if you ask the wrong questions in an interview, you’re going to get yourself a lawsuit. But if you don’t ask those questions, you’re going to get a bad culture fit and then you’re going to have a lot of heartache and then you’re going to get a lawsuit. And so that’s what you can avoid when you come to redball work.

You can hire people who will build your business, who will make you money and will be a blast to work with. So redballoon. org, lots of great resources. Public square, we are building the parallel economy and we’re just getting started. And I think Michael will reiterate that there is so much work still to do. But so far so good. So far so good indeed. You guys are amazing gang just check out the links.

We have the links both for red balloon and public square down below. They’re amazing. If you want to tap into this parallel, burgeoning, parallel economy, escape bidenomics and really reclaim the american dream with like minded patriots, do that now, click on the link below. You’re going to absolutely love it. Andrew Michael, guys, thanks so much. Let’s have you back real soon. Thanks for having us. .

See more of Dr. Steve Turley on their Public Channel and the MPN Dr. Steve Turley channel.