Why is that relevant? Because you go to a Catholic Church, don’t you? You’ve attended recently. You’re interested in Catholicism, aren’t you? Sure. All right. Are you familiar with their doctrines? Somewhat. Okay, you’re familiar. How do they regard Mary? Why are you asking me that? Because you’re a Christian. You say that. I haven’t claimed that. Oh, what is this? Is this a Christian versus atheist? I don’t know. You don’t know where you are right now. Don’t be a smart ass. Well, either you’re a Christian or you’re not. Oh, either you’re a Christian or you’re not.

Which one is it? I could be either of them, but I don’t have to tell you. You don’t have to tell me. I was under the impression. I was invited to talk to a Christian. Am I not talking to a Christian? No, you were invited to. I think everyone should look at the title of the YouTube channel. You’re probably in the wrong YouTube video. You’re really quite something you are. Aren’t I? But you’re really quite nothing, right? You’re not a Christian. Okay, I’m done with him. Hey gang, it’s me, Dr. Steve on the road again.

This time I’m coming to you from beautiful Las Vegas, beautiful, sunny, very, very hot. So I’m staying indoors where there’s AC. But I just had to remark on that recent rather stunning exchange you just saw between Jordan Peterson and a young atheist. It was purportedly part of the Jubilee event. Originally billed as a Christian versus 20 atheists and Jordan Peterson served the role as a Christian. Apparently there was some confusion on that, at least when it comes to Peterson, as you could see. So they changed the title of the video to Jordan Peterson versus 20 atheists.

Regardless, that exchange was rather devastating to say the least. One of the more interesting takes on that exchange was this one that noted that it wasn’t just 20 atheists debating a Christian. It was 20 atheists crushing another atheist. And this guy says, quote, Jordan Peterson may have stood in the room as Christianity’s representative, but he left biblical orthodoxy at the door. His God is a useful metaphor, not a holy creator. His view of man is self-serving, not self-sacrificing. His scripture is psychological literature, not divine revelation. Now, whatever you want to make of that very interesting observation, it was very clear that Peterson got caught rather flat-footed there.

And his sitting on the fence when it comes to the confessional side of Christianity, in fact, even goes so far as to deny it, at least for argument’s sake, appeared to get the best of him that day. I want to talk about what Peterson should have said. I want to talk about how Peterson actually could have his cake and eat it too. Here’s a way that he could have sat on the fence in terms of his personal commitment to confessional Christianity and still won that exchange easily. And I think it’s important because it points to the larger issue of just how much we, including Peterson and that young atheist, get wrong about Christianity in particular and religion in general.

What Peterson should have said when asked, are you a Christian? Yes or no? The answer is simple. Of course I’m a Christian. And not only that, looking right into the eyes of the atheist, so are you. Yes, I’m a Christian. And guess what? So are you. And so are likely all the other 19 so-called atheists in this room. But first, I do want to take a moment to talk about something important that affects so many of us. Do you constantly feel exhausted, weighed down, and struggle to get through the day? Well, the culprit may be right under your nose, a sluggish, overworked liver.

See, the reality is your liver is under constant attack. I mean, think about it. From processed foods, environmental toxins, GMOs, microplastics, fluorine, and so many other things that we still don’t know about, over time this takes a serious toll. In fact, a staggering 100 million Americans now suffer from an overworked and sluggish liver, according to the American Liver Foundation. That’s nearly one in every three people. Now, if you’re tired of feeling sluggish and are ready to reclaim your vitality, I highly recommend giving your liver the support it desperately needs with Liver Health Formula from our sponsor Pure Health Research.

This cutting-edge supplement combines 11 powerful, clinically-proven ingredients to detoxify and rejuvenate your liver at the cellular level. Liver Health Formula’s natural ingredients and nutrients are designed to revitalize your liver, helping raise energy, optimize metabolism, and manage weight. This company has already helped more than 2 million Americans. It’s time you joined their ranks and got back to feeling your best. As a special offer from my listeners, you can try Liver Health Formula and get a free one-month supply of blood sugar formula to help you control those sugar cravings. It’s an exclusive offer just for you, my audience.

So to claim your free gift, just visit getliverhealth.com slash Turley. That’s getliverhealth.com slash Turley. Take the first steps towards better living health and more vibrant living today. So what am I getting at? Well, again, it comes down to what religion actually is. The problem with a debate like that is it was assumed by both Christian and atheists that religion in general is a matter of personal, private belief. Religion is a subjective sentiment. Some people go to church on Sundays, but some go to yoga class. Some go to Weight Watchers or Old Country Buffet, the opposite. Christianity is simply a private, personal commitment to a set of beliefs that are embraced by some to be true and others not.

The fundamental problem, the fatal flaw to this entire debate is that emphatically is not what religion is. Again, this is very important. Whenever people debate religion, either side rarely stops to define precisely what they mean by this term, religion. Cultural anthropologists have argued now for over a century that religion is fundamentally social order. You have to get that. It’s not a personal, private belief. It’s not personal sentiment. It’s not something that gives you a sense of meaning and purpose in life. Yeah, it may in fact do all those things. No question. But fundamentally, religion is all about social order.

The way all human societies are ultimately bound together is through something known as the sacred. And the sacred is comprised of rules, understandings and goals embedded in ceremonial rituals that are considered absolute and unquestionable and thereby provide the means by which we can have social order. So let’s unpack that a little bit, right? We all know what we mean by this term sacred. At least we have an idea. The sacred is something that’s set apart from everything else. That’s what we mean by the term holy. It’s wholly different, as it were, from any and all other things.

So for example, when it comes to dishware, most of us have some kind of China that we consider set apart from all other mundane dishware. And notice how we display that set-apartness, that sanctity. We don’t put China among our mundane dishware. We physically separate it and put it on display in what we call China cabinet, which is, in effect, a kind of shrine displaying the sanctity of the dishware. That’s what rituals do. Rituals set apart whatever a culture values as sacred. So when we’re dealing with the sacred in a social sense, we’re dealing with a set of rules, understandings and goals that are set apart from everything else in society in that they are collectively recognized as absolute and unquestionable.

In other words, these rules, understandings and goals define us. We don’t define them. So for example, if I get pulled over by a police officer for speeding and I tell him, you know, I really don’t like that law. What’s he going to say to me? Well, that’s all fine and dandy, but he is still broken, right? In this case, the law is absolute. It’s unquestionable. I don’t define it. It defines me. I may want to have law changed, but if I do, then there is a procedure to do so that is itself absolute and unquestionable.

There’s no society that can operate without basic rules, understandings and goals that define the common good for society in ways that are considered absolute and unquestionable. This is the social basis for any vision of shared public life. And so for cultural anthropologists, religion is social order. Religion, that which defines the sacred is social order. Another way of thinking about it, religion is the cult of culture. That’s where we get the term culture from, from the Latin cultura, which is rooted in the term cultus, which means worship. Religion is the cult of culture. And the key here is it’s not a matter of having social order over here and religion over there that somehow helps society or gives individuals a sense of purpose as if it’s something added to society like salt on steak.

Religion is society. Religion is the cult of culture. That’s what the term religion means. Religio is derived from the Latin religare, which means to retire, rebind one’s social obligations. So that’s the first thing to get here to the extent that we are all part of the social order that is ultimately rooted in Christian civilization, which we are. Just read Russell Kirk’s The Roots of American Order. American society is rooted in the distinctively Christian synthesis of the three great classical cities of Jerusalem, Athens, and Rome. If we are all part of a social order that is ultimately bound together by the Christian tradition, then by definition we are Christians.

We all ascribe to sacred rules, understandings, and goals uniquely shaped and calibrated according to Christian norms. This is precisely what the renowned atheist Richard Dawkins has recently admitted to. He was doing an interview with Rachel Johnson of LBC News, and he admitted that he was very distressed about the Islamification of London that he was seeing. Instead, he said he missed the distinctively Christian nature of traditional British culture. He considered himself very much what he called a cultural Christian, meaning his sense of architecture and music and holidays and decorations. They were all inordinately shaped by the Christian tradition which he loved.

He said bluntly that he loved Christian hymns, he loved Christian carols, and that he felt at home in a Christian ethos. And the reason for that, of course, is that he’s a child of Christian civilization. He was culturally forged by a culture whose cult was Christianity. And yet he spent his entire adult life trying to undermine the very cult of that culture that he so loved. I once heard it put, he spent his life chopping down apple trees only to lament the loss of apple pie. This is precisely what that fellow at that debate was doing.

You can claim to be an atheist until you are blue in the face. But that claim will never rescue you from the fact that the cultural knowledge you use to embrace atheism is itself rooted in the very Christian tradition that negates atheism. This is why particularly Western atheism always seems to end up in an inexorable incoherence. Knowledge traditions are themselves rooted in a sacred. And so to default to a knowledge system rooted in a sacred, to argue against that very sacred, is nothing less than trying to push the bus you’re trying to ride on. You’re sawing the very limb you’re sitting on.

You’re actually engaged in undermining the very legitimacy of the argument you’re making. So in effect, what this fellow was doing there, just like Richard Dawkins, is he was arguing against a culture that is the very basis of the validity of his argument. So yes, I am a Christian. And so are you. Hey there, Turley Talk. You know what? I’d love to hear from you. That’s why I’m launching the Dr. Steve hotline, where you can call in, leave a question, and maybe even hear your own voice featured on an upcoming episode of the show. Whether it’s about the latest political shakeup or cultural trends or how we keep pushing forward in this new conservative age, I want to know what’s on your mind.

Call me at 717-844-5984. Just leave your question. I’ll be checking in every single week to answer as many as I can. Again, that’s 717-844-5984. Your chance to be a part of the conversation. One more time, 717-844-5984. Give me a call and let’s talk. [tr:trw].

See more of Dr. Steve Turley on their Public Channel and the MPN Dr. Steve Turley channel.