➡ Chris Marcus and Mario Aneko Mineco 64 discuss the recent drop in gold prices, suggesting it’s a correction before prices rise again. They note that despite the war, gold and silver remain safe investments, especially as money supply increases globally. They also discuss the possibility of market manipulation by professional traders and the Exchange Stabilization Fund. Lastly, they express concern over the U.S.’s handling of its reserve currency status, suggesting it could lead to a weaker dollar.
➡ The speaker discusses the current economic situation, highlighting the potential for a gold revaluation in the U.S. due to its questionable actions. They also mention the ongoing process of de-dollarization, with countries like China and Iran moving towards gold. The speaker suggests that China is benefiting from the current crisis due to its energy self-sufficiency, while Europe and the U.S. may suffer. They also discuss the high costs of conflict in the Middle East and the potential for gold and silver prices to rise post-war. The speaker remains bullish on physical gold and silver, despite the challenges of inflation and the debt-based system. They also mention the increasing demand for silver in China for energy alternatives like solar power and AI, and in India where silver is now accepted as collateral.
➡ The discussion revolves around the potential revaluation of gold, which could help manage the US debt and stimulate the economy. The idea is that if gold’s value increases, the debt becomes less significant, and this could lead to a boost in the economy. This strategy was used after World War II to reduce debt. However, the alternative to this could be raising interest rates, strengthening the dollar, and potentially causing a great depression.
➡ The CEO of Fortuna, Jorge Ganozo, has shared some important updates you might have missed from the last earnings call.

The first thing I would love to start with is talking about how the gold bubble has popped. Well, hello there my friends, Chris Marcus here with you for Arcadia economics on Thursday April 30th. Fortunate to be joined by one of the true legends of the industry, not just YouTube but also Finance. So multi legantic is what we can call Mario Aneko Mineco 64 as he is commonly known to talk about a lot of things happening in the gold and silver markets, things that are affecting the world, that connected to the gold and silver markets and much much more.

So Mario, how are you today? It’s a pleasure to have you back on in here, sir. I’m doing well and it’s nice speaking with you again. It’s been a while. Yeah, well as you somewhat suggested, or maybe you didn’t actually suggest it, perhaps more inferred right before we hit the record button we, we did have some interesting banter or warm up session here. So I like it. He’s primed and ready to go. And the first thing I would love to start with is talking about how the gold bubble has popped. We have banks resetting the gold price obviously.

We’ll take a quick look at the prices first here on a Thursday just be well just afternoon east coast time. Gold at 4600 high was 5626. So thousand bucks off the high. Silver at futures at 7360. Mario, have you ever seen a rally like this before? Any other time following the gold market we would be hearing after a move like that, oh look, the gold bubbles popped. The gold bubbles been popped. You’d be hearing how hey we have a war. Gold and silver, they’re not a safe haven and yet not only are we going to score a touchdown, spike the football, but we’re also going to go for two here because here Morgan Stanley reset their price, this was last week but they took it their, their year end target from 5,700 to 5,200.

Normally they raise there, they they momentum target if you will. So if we’re at 4600 you would be hearing talk about the bubbles popped. 4000 is next. Wait till it’s going to be three, going to be 2000 by Christmas. So very odd behavior in a very odd time. And I know that’s a long question there but any thoughts on what the heck is going on especially over these past two months? Well if you look at last year, gold is up 65%, silver up almost 150%. And we had a really hot start to the Year, gold and silver flew.

I mean silver, the high was 121, gold 5600. So I guess we were getting ahead of ourselves. All I think we’re seeing now is a correction and a consolidation before we resume the move higher. And what I would say about Morgan Stanley and all the bullying banks is that following them since like 2002 when I first bought a few gold coins, is that their forecasts are always like very conservative. Yeah. And they prove to be. Yeah, always very conservative and way off. I saw someone late last year. She, I think she works for Pamp or something.

I forgot her name, Skoles or something I forgot. But she’s active on X. And she said, oh, my average price for silver next year is $48 or something like that. And I said what she said was 58. And silver at the time was at 48. And I said, I, I think that’s going to happen before the end of the year. And it did. You know, we went up to like I think 84 silver before the end of last year. So. Yeah. And I don’t think, Chris, the fundamentals have changed. If anything, the fundamentals are getting a lot better for gold and silver.

Money supply, not just in the U.S. but all around the developed world is booming. I think it’s going up by 15% since the beginning of last year. In terms of the, the war. Yeah, I think safe haven. Well, if you look back historically, gold and silver during, during wars is the only kind of currency people accept right now. The war is still like localized, but if it becomes a bigger conflict, you will want to have gold and silver. And the other thing I looked at back in 1973 when they had the oil embargo, oil shot up like from $3 to 12 over like nine months.

And gold and silver actually didn’t react right away. So I’m not concerned. I still think it’s. I feel like I sleep soundly at night knowing that I have gold and silver outside the system. And I think the bond market, Chris, doesn’t look very good. Yields are creeping up everywhere. Japan, the us, Germany, the uk. So yeah, that’s how I see things right now. It’s probably the best time to be adding onto your stack if you’re fortunate enough to have physical, you know, not physical, but to have a spare fiat currency savings. Well, I think that makes a lot of sense, although it leads perfectly into the next question where given everything that’s happening, why have gold and silver prices gotten clobbered since the war began, which now this was Also, this was from last week, but there was the IEA chief saying that we’re facing the biggest energy security threat in history.

I just showed the Brent oil price at 110. So I think a lot of people have been confused because gold and silver looked upon, as you pointed out, as havens, safe havens during times of crisis of which we’re seeing one, and we’re hearing it was either Trump or Hegset. They said, is there, is there any amount that this work could cost where we can’t afford it? And of course, the answer was no. They want a 50 military increase next year. So why do you think gold and silver have traded significantly off where they were the Sunday night when this began two months ago? Yeah, and I remember that Sunday night.

Silver went up to like, 96. Gold went up to 5,400. I. I’ve spoken a few times to Peter Carlin. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him. He co authored a Pocketbook of gold with Jim Sinclair, and he’s an energy trader. He’s into precious metals. He thinks it’s got to do with professional traders. And what he means by that is that professional traders are always trading one thing against the other. And right now, the tendency is for oil to be very bullish, of course, because of the war. So whenever they go long oil, they short gold, just as a hedge and vice versa.

So that could be why. And I think maybe also a lot of speculators thought, well, this war is going to start, and they loaded up on gold and silver futures and they got burned. And there could be a little bit of intervention also by the powers that be to keep the dollar firm for now, but I, I think the US Administration, they want a weaker dollar. So event. Excuse me, Mario. Yeah. Just since you raised a nice little nugget there, if I may interject, do you think the Exchange Stabilization Fund has been active in the gold and silver markets over the past two months? Yeah, no, I do, but especially also in oil.

I think we’ve heard Besson talk about the things he’s doing to cap the oil price, rooting for the death of people across the globe, which I personally have an issue with. Sorry, I won’t hijack my own question, but. All right, you want to be at war, fine. But, hey, we cut off. We’re cutting off their power. They’re going to exclamation mark, maybe. Next question. Mario, related to all of this, what is your perspective on what you’re seeing? Can be. You’re welcome to be as political as you’d like, you could avoid that. But I mean as someone who’s looking on the world’s reserve currency and I think there’s ways to do things.

There’s certainly things that are the way they come out I have issues with. But what would you say there. Well, to be like very diplomatic. There’s the old saying about in you know, being what’s it Dale Carnegie said, how to make friends and influence people. Right. That’s not what the United States is doing right now. So if you have the world’s reserve currency or reserve asset, I.e. treasuries, you’re not going about it the right way. If you want not just your allies, well, not just like your, the people who aren’t your allies, but even your allies to like respect you and collaborate or you know, buy your, your, your, your bonds.

So yeah, that’s what I think is happening and maybe that’s the conspiratorial side is that maybe the United States under the current administration wants that they want the dollar to be trashed because that means the, the debt that besant not bessant. But hey, Hegseth and Trump are not concerned about will be a lot easier to carry if the dollar crashes against other currencies. The problem is other currencies. They’ll, there’s competition. Fiat currency. The U.S. prints, they, they will print. But I think ultimately it’s versus gold that it’s going to happen. And I still think. Yeah, I, that’s why I think I’m still bullish.

Well, don’t think that’s why I’m still bullish. I think a gold revaluation could be something on the cards for, for the U.S. but yeah, I think the way the U.S. is acting, looking from outside, it’s not good. Not good. I think it’s not going to, not going to help the empire remain like at the top. Yeah. I mean, and even I’m not a big fan of Jerome Powell and the Fed yet. Like calling him a loser one day, a numbskull the next day. And I might add, is it a little ironic that apparently the big issue is how much they spent on the spent on the Fed building And now after this highly dubious incident at some White House dinner over the weekend now, and I hear the estimates for how much they want to spend on this ballroom where why don’t you get the security to do their job? Yeah, why do you need a ballroom? Yeah.

But anyway, I mean you bring up a lot of great points there. I’ll definitely go Back to that gold reset thing you mentioned the possibility of that. Although as this is happening we see a world that was already in the process of de dollarization. Now I mean you’re like really putting the screws on that. We’re seeing China, not like it’s a surprise side with Iran, energy going to China. We’re seeing the world forced to choose sides more with gold underpinning what is happening in China. So how does that play in. Yeah, and even like some countries in Europe are siding with Iran and not the U.S.

china, yes. They’re getting some of their oil through the strait and they’re also, they’ve come a long way in terms of diversifying their energy needs. And I think I had a chat with Eric Young, King Kong 9,888 and 82% of the energy in China is they have self sufficiency of 82% so they only need to import 18%. So I think China is the big, big winner in relative terms from this current crisis. The big losers are in Europe and Maybe even the U.S. the reason I say the U.S. even though the U.S. has a lot of energy and natural resources, reason I say the US is because of the how much is going to cost all this? You know, this conflict in the Middle East.

It’s not cheap running a war. And I would say, I would add, Chris, that usually gold and silver do really well after the war because people realize the cost of the war. Right now the focus of the markets and the powers that be is to cheerlead the. So you know, that’s what happens. But when all is said and done, if you look at after World War I, World War II, we had a lot of inflation in the U.S. in both cases and also after the war in Vietnam ended in 1975, look what happened in the second half of the 1970s.

Gold and silver went through the roof. And Mario, would it be safe to say that if the price of keeping America safe is going up 50% conceivably next year, that would be an excess of the fed’s already arbitrary 2% mandate, which I might add that now that we’ve crossed, oh, we’re still in April, so we’re five years since we’ve been below the Fed’s 2% mandate, which even Paul Volcker and Greenspan acknowledged was bullshit to begin with. But I guess did they put out? I don’t know. We didn’t get a dot plot yesterday. Those are always exciting.

J. Pal said he doesn’t like dot plots. Well, I could see why I mean, they keep calling for inflation to come down by cutting interest rates. And now you have this in the way, which will get to this and hold the suspense for your reset thoughts. But I think one of the stunning things of the second half of this year is going to be watching. All right, if Warsh gets in, I mean, you assume he didn’t get the phone call because he was going to be an interest rate hawk. Yet how are they going to cut with inflation already? Well, I mean, it’s been in excess of the target.

Now you have $110 oil, which leaves the Fed in an even more difficult position, if such a thing were possible than before. Yeah, I mean, you know, 2% inflation, or CPI, because I don’t even like to call it inflation over 40 years. That’s like a 55% loss of purchasing power. So, you know, why have inflation in the first place? And the reason why they need inflation though is because under this fiat currency debt based system, you need to keep growing the debt because you can’t pay off old debt because the money is debt. So how can you pay off debt with more debt? And that’s why I’m still really bullish.

Physical gold and silver, real money. But yeah, that’s how I see it. And that about Warsh, I think, yeah, like you said, why would he hire someone that was not gonna do, appoint someone that wasn’t gonna do what he wants? Maybe you can see where this is headed. You know, it’s not, I’m not gonna become, not gonna be a complete surprise, which again, I, I’m of the same school of thought that, all right, you know, maybe oil’s up, people are worried about deflation. So gold and silver, I wonder if we won’t see another month or two of the sideways action where I think you can see a couple of steps ahead, what is quite likely to happen.

I don’t think that’s really Wall Street’s strong suit. So we’ll give them a little time to figure out where this is headed yet. On some level, my school of the thought is that we will see a snapback rally because there’s going to be more money spent, more money borrowed, more money printed. And to what you said earlier about the possibility of a reset or revaluation. Revaluation or the other thing, Chris, that I would say people need to have if they truly believe in the fundamentals for gold, silver and commodities, is that you need patience. Because you Remember back in 2021, the silver squeeze movement, I remember being with you and Bill Murphy and others on that Sunday night when Silver days Silver was break trying to break 30 and then Jeff Curry tamped down the price right with the cftc.

And I said, and people, a lot of people in the panel were really excited. And now I said we need to be careful because these guys could smack the price down. And it took, it took, I mean four years for silver to really break, break out, you know, from not just 30 but also the old level. Well, it took 45 years to break through 50, but it took four years for us to get back definitively over 30. So here we are now at, I don’t know, let’s see, we’re at 73 and people are really, the sentiment is really bad and that’s in itself a good thing because if you had told me like last beginning of 2025 that silver would be at 75 this year, I’d be very happy.

So it’s all a matter of perspective. But you know, I get it, people are upset cause it’s off of the highs. But still, if you had X number of ounces, you have current, you have more money. Substantially more than 2x than a year ago today. Oh yeah, that’s right. Silver bugs out there. You guys need to get a grip. If you’re not happy today then and year to date as well. Chris Gold started the year at 4300 and silver started at 7160 app, we’re off the highs, but they’re still up year to date. So yeah. And Mario, what did you think of that Chinese? Did you see that spike in the silver imports where they basically been around like 3 to 400 tons a month for the last decade as long as, as far as back as the data went.

And then you had an 800 burger which again also in the midst of, as I know you are well aware, this spread in Shanghai, which is back up to nine bucks over. So to see, I mean that number would have been stunning at any time. But certainly in the context of that. What would you say there? Well, I, I would say if Trump is really trying to like defeat China in some way or compete with China, he wouldn’t be allowing the Chinese, Chinese to buy silver off COMEX and the lbma. And that’s what they’re doing. It’s a lot cheaper there here than there.

And they’re, that’s why their imports of silver have gone through the roof and now they want to double down on having alternatives to oil as a source of energy. And you need a lot of silver for like Solar, solar energy. You need a lot of silver for AI as well. You need a lot of silver. All these, you know, solar panels need silver, batteries need silver. So I think that’s what’s happening. And it’s going to continue, in my opinion, and India as well, from April this year, beginning of April. They, they’re allowing people to use silver as collateral for loans.

They, they, I mean, last year, Chris, I think silver, Indian imported loads of silver as well, and they’re going to continue to do so. Yeah, well, certainly, certainly a fascinating time on the planet. And I guess back to the concept of a gold revaluation. We did see them at least put the idea somewhat in official context when they talked about revaluing the Fed certificates to the market price to help fund there. They were calling the strategic Bitcoin fund back then. Haven’t heard much about that lately. We did hear Trump, though, mention it’s like two or three weeks ago.

He’s like, by the way, our financial infrastructure is really out of date. So we’re going to update that. And I don’t know. Okay, financial infrastructure, I mean, that’s kind of silly, I think, but. And Mario, what, what did you think it was. It’s over a year now since Besson came out and said over the next 12 months we’re going monetize the assets on the US balance sheet for the good of the people. Well, that, that’s why I think gold revaluation could be on the cards because gold is probably the. Yeah. Is a very valuable asset on the Treasury’s balance sheet and is highly liquid as well.

And even if they were to revalue it to the current price, let’s say 4600 gold would go through the roof because back in 73, the last time they revalued from 38 to 42, 22, I mean, gold went straight to 100. It never came back to 42. So you don’t even have to revalue it like to 10,000 to see it go a lot higher. And aside from a bitcoin reserve, it would help. It would help maybe the administration send checks to people before the midterms without increasing the debt. That’s what this revaluation would do. Can revalue it gold to 80,000 before the midterms to 80, give everybody 5,000 bucks.

Although, Mario, as you point out, would you agree that you could make the argument that if the treasury gets the, the higher the gold, the higher the gold price when such a. Let’s forget even about outside of Market price. But you could say the US has a vested interest to see a higher gold price because if they’re going to revalue their certificates, well, you get more cash if the gold price is at 10,000 than at 5,000. And again, I’ll point out if Bess, in saying flat out tells you he’s doing, taking action to distort what otherwise a free market oil price would be, don’t think it’s impossible that this, that they’re doing something similar in gold and silver.

Not saying that they are, but there’s. And what else are they going to do with the debt? That’s the other. Yeah, well, yeah, the debt. I think the other thing, you know, if gold goes up, it means the debt becomes worth less. And because you’re going to see a lot more currency debasement and the debt will be easier to carry, you could see a massive increase in nominal GDP and that wipes out the debt. You know, I think that’s the way they’re gonna go. And they could also do QE and start doing yield curve control and have financial repression, which is Basically, you’re running CPI at 4 to 6% and investors are getting, you know, 3 to 4% on their savings, which is financial repression.

And I think that’s what they’re going to do. That’s what they did, Chris, from the end of World War II till like 1980. They got the debt to GDP at end of World War II from 120% down to like 32% by 1980. And now we’re back to like 125%. Well, here’s the other thing is that, you know, it’s like on one hand you’re like, yeah, and it sounds extreme, but you see, could say you see a path to get there. Although also when you think about it, it’s almost difficult to see a path that doesn’t involve getting there.

I mean, what else with the debt there? I don’t, I don’t think this. Okay, the plan was to grow our way out of the debt. Now we have 120oil and it might go higher. So I think we passed that point of no return a long time ago, in my opinion. So it’s almost, if you take that alternate look, like, what else could they do? The alternative is to let raise interest rates, strengthen the dollar, collapse everything and have a massive great depression, liquidate everything. But then there would be riots. Although still in that environment, you would think gold and silver would.

You still want to have it. Yeah. You still want to have that because business, you know, there’d be mass massive bankruptcies. You know, the banks would go under. So yeah, you want gold and silver. Yeah. I think the only time gold and silver don’t do well is when you have Goldilocks, when everything’s fine. But when you’ve got either massive inflation or massive deflation or collapse, gold will do well in both extremes and I think I agree with you, we’re going to get the crack up boom or the inflationary extreme. Well, I’ll tell you what there, my friend, aside from Dave Ramsden of the bank of England, true hero in my household, the only other thing besides gold and silver that I think will do as well in those extremes is logging on and being a regular viewer of the Mineco 64 channel and YouTube logs me out.

I am a subscriber here so just for. That’s weird. Yeah. Or not YouTube my. I’m using. Yeah. Using my Safari browser and you can see if our faces aren’t covering them. Not signed in here but I am a subscriber. Mario. I even get the notification bells so that when new episodes released and for anyone who has not yet been over to your channel, maybe you could just let them know what you do over there. Well, I’m the home of alternative economics and contrarian views, as you can see, and I try to explain to the general public in layman’s term, you know, the financial markets as I, as I used to to my institutional clients when I worked in the financial sector because I think it’s important that people know not just about what the stock market is doing but about interest rates, bonds, currencies.

And of course I’ve been warning about the current monetary system since I started the channel back in 2015 and I’m still warning about it. And the, the main, the main solution or protection or insurance is go are gold and silver. So that’s what the channel is about. I post content every day and I do a live stream on Sunday at 3:00pm Eastern Time, U.S. time. Well I appreciate that and like you said, I see you even kind enough to help explain recessionary stagflationary behav behavior to Ray Dalio. So. Yeah, well some of these big names you would.

Well, Ray Dalio seems to be awake about gold. So he’s been talking about gold, Gundlach, even Mohammed El Erian has stopped panicking about the Fed independence long enough to start buying gold or I don’t know if he bought gold. He likes talking about it although hopefully Muhammad could go over to the Mineco 64 channel and stop worrying so much. And Mario, just appreciate you making some time. Always fun to catch up with you, interesting times in the world. But you stay well my friend and we’ll do this again soon. You stay well too. Thank you. Well, thank you to Mario for the fun conversation.

Always a good time catching up with him and seeing what he is looking at in these markets which have gotten somewhat chaotic. Although we’ll just continue to follow and see how things go. Although actually we will be possibly taking a little bit of a break waiting on something that will be the final determining factor, but may take about a week or two of a break. Been a long time since I’ve had some time off, so in case you do not see me in the next week or so, just wanted to let you know that and also that today’s show was kindly brought to us by Fortuna Mining, who has had quite a year now, like many of the mining stocks, is well off its highs from earlier this year, although they are about to report their first quarter earnings that will be coming up next week on May 6 after the close and we’ll look forward to having Jorge Ginosa join us on the show.

So I’ll probably be back at least for that if I do take a little bit of time off. But keep in mind they increased their production in the first quarter relative to the fourth quarter and we also have a substantially higher gold price. Also be exciting to hear more about the upcoming construction decision at Diambasud, which could further increase their production quite substantially. In addition to the 15% increase in the year over year change in consolidated mineral reserves, and that was in their West African mines and also an increase of 34% in underground mineral reserves at Seguela.

So has been quite a quarter for Fortuna even as the gold price has come off of its highs just by a bit. But in either case, in case you missed the last call to make sure you’re up to date leading into this earnings, well, here is some commentary from Fortuna CEO Jorge Ganozo. Sam.
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