➡ Dr. Marizal Arce, a naturopathic doctor, shares her journey from traditional medical school to naturopathic medicine. She was disheartened by the lack of cultural understanding and holistic approach in traditional medicine. She found naturopathic medicine to be more aligned with her beliefs, although it wasn’t as idealistic as she had hoped. She emphasizes the importance of understanding how the environment and nature play a role in health.
➡ The text discusses a student’s experience in a microbiology lab where they observed bacteria changing forms, which contradicted what they had been taught. Despite being told they were making mistakes, the student persisted and eventually found a company that made remedies based on the concept of pleomorphism, the ability of bacteria to change forms. This discovery led the student to question why this concept wasn’t being taught in schools and to make it their goal to educate others about pleomorphism and related topics.
➡ A scientist discusses his research on microzymas, tiny bodies also known as protein, somatide, or bion. These are not bacteria but colloid proteins, which can expand in size quickly, suggesting they are made of a building block that can multiply and create structures. The scientist believes these microzymas could be the smallest unit of life, even smaller than cells, and can be found in inanimate natural materials. To observe these microzymas, a light compound microscope with a dark field oil condenser is needed.
➡ The text discusses the effects of methylene blue on red blood cells, noting that it suppresses their activity and can lead to cell death. It also explores the concept of microzymas, organisms within our bodies that change in response to environmental factors. The text suggests that these microzymas are not disease-causing but rather adapt to the needs of the body, aiding in healing or decomposition. The discussion also criticizes the medical view of inflammation as harmful, arguing that it is a necessary part of the healing process.
➡ The text discusses the body’s natural response to harmful substances and how we often suppress these responses with medication, which can lead to more serious health issues. It explains that symptoms like sneezing or diarrhea are the body’s way of eliminating toxins. However, when we use drugs to stop these symptoms, the body is forced to find other ways to expel the toxins, which can lead to more serious conditions like sinusitis or bronchitis. The text suggests that instead of suppressing symptoms, we should support the body’s natural elimination processes, for example, by staying hydrated during diarrhea.
➡ The text discusses the importance of understanding our body’s signals and working with it to maintain health. It emphasizes the need to replenish the body with what it loses, avoid stress and aggravating foods during detox, and consider fasting or a liquid diet during certain conditions. It also highlights the role of different organisms in our body, indicating various health issues, and the need to support the body to help these organisms return to their maintenance form. The text concludes by stressing the importance of circulation and flow in the body, and the need to understand and interpret our body’s signals rather than trying to suppress them.
➡ The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding our bodies and not blaming germs for our health issues. They believe that if we view organisms as indicators of our health, healthcare could be more effective and affordable. They also mention their book, “Germs Are Not Our Enemy”, which is available on various platforms and is suitable for high school students. The speaker hopes to release a more detailed version of the book in the future and can be found on various online platforms for further information.

Prodits. The reason why he called it proteids. Pro, meaning the first. He believed that the microzymas, or what he called protists were actually the thing that created the cells in our very own body. So not just the bacterial forms, the fungal forms and all that cycle, but he believed that they were the base of our own cellular structure. So in other words, that this could be the base unit of all life forms. This is the true health report, where critical appraisal fuels true freedom. Hello everyone and welcome to the True Health Report. I’m your host, Dr.

Andrew Kaufman, and today we’re going to get into some aspects of the terrain model with my special guest, Dr. Marizal Arce, the author of Germs Are Not Our Enemy, an excellent book and written at a level that anyone can understand it. It’s not written for scientists, so I definitely encourage people to take a look. Dr. Arce is a doctor of naturopathy and she has unique expertise in the area of pleomorphism and dark field microscopy. And we met each other through the Biggleson brothers and she participated in a panel discussion that we did about microscopic nanotechnology and also put on a conference, terrainology, that I spoke at recently.

And I wanted to get her on to talk about this topic a little bit more comprehensively. So welcome. Marisel. Hi, nice to be here. Thank you for having me. Sure. I wonder if we could start off to. If you could tell the audience a little bit about how you stumbled into this area, a little bit off the beaten path and of course before the pandemic. So you are already on this journey. So let us know a little bit about your story. Sure. So the story goes that I was in regular medical school and I was in New York Medical College and I was very it.

I was very disheartened by it. I, I mean, you know, not to sound cliche, but I always wanted to be a doctor. I always wanted to help people. The earliest memory and the earliest photograph of me mixing, you know, crushed leaves and rocks on my driveway when I’m super little, trying to give people potions, you know, that was me trying to help people thinking I’m making medicines for them. And listen, historically that’s not far off. But you know, growing up in the 80s and the 90s, that’s not what medicine was. So I had to, you know, go through all the rigamarole of going through schooling and med school and pre med and etc.

Being that I was disheartened, I found myself in naturopathic school. Naturopathic Medical school in Connecticut. Go ahead. Before we go there. What. What was it that was disheartening about the allopathic medical training? Oh, so, you know, I. I grew up in a very multicultural family, and predominantly I was brought up as a Peruvian. So my father was born and raised in Peru, and very much a lot of my family is Peruvian. And my grandfather, who I was fortunate to have live with us for many years in our house in New York, he actually taught me a lot of different things that you can do when you’re feeling sick, you know, you’re not feeling good when certain things are happening.

He taught me all these different unique treatments, you know, using lemon peels and, you know, different types of making broths and. And drinking combinations of substances and using certain herbs and certain teas. So I was fortunate to have this experience, and that really drove me to wanting to be an anthropologist, but at the same time, I wanted to be a doctor. So I was like, how can I. How can I blend the two? You know, So I was like, oh, I’m going to get into anthropology, but I’ll do pre med in college. But I really want to delve into medicine and food and nutrition when I was in college.

So I predominantly did that in college. I did college in three years because I just, you know, banged through all my courses because I knew what I wanted to do. So I got into med school. And I thought because of my exposure to my grandfather, my exposure to the cultural ideologies, you know, from around the world, from. In college, I thought medicine was going to have some of that in there. And medicine was so washed, so clinical, so sanitized of cultural understandings, you know, ethnic, you know, incorporations, you know, and. And that, to me, it didn’t resonate.

There was something missing in medicine. If. If we’re looking at the human body in context, which, you know, we live in context. We live in our environments, we live in our cultures, we live in our communities. And having someone being diagnosed with a disease, despite whatever foods he was eating or the environment he was in, it didn’t. It didn’t resonate. It didn’t make sense. Like, you were just the stat. You were just an ICD9 code. You were just a diagnosis. You know, you were. And that didn’t. That didn’t resonate with me. I didn’t believe that we were just a bag of chemicals and that we were discerned by lab reports and, you know, the supposed objectiveness of the doctor.

So I was literally. But, you know, I don’t Want to, I don’t want to underestimate it because of course everything you say is true. And I’ve spoken with other doctors who were disheartened by similar attributes. But it takes a lot of courage to leave medical school. I mean, it’s a big deal just to get in, to be part of that. Right? You’re initiated into the club and you must have had some very strong abilities, like some fortitude to make that decision. Yeah, I had a, had a good, good headed mom. I had a very strong mom that always was again, you know, worked against the grain.

You know, she, there was part of her that said, go through the hoops. And then there was part of her when she saw that I was really having trouble, she said, you know what, you will find what you’re looking for. You know, go, go through what you need to go through, but at the same time find what you’re looking for. The path shouldn’t be this hard. So I did my research and I found Naturopathic Medical school. And I said, oh, you know, looking at their, their course loads, their curriculums, I said, wow, I can get the experience of medicine, but with the incorporation of the understanding of how the environment and nature plays a role.

So I got in. And not to, not to take away from some of the education I got from it, but at the same time, naturopathic medical school is not as, as naturey and you know, it’s not the idealistic thing that I thought it was going to be. So I had to make it my own. Right. So. Well, that’s great because I’m often asked by young people who are interested in, you know, a career like we have, you know, should I go to this school or that school? And generally my response is no, because. Because you, you can acquire the knowledge in other ways.

Right. Because all the educational institutions, even if they are built or based on originally. Right. The right body of knowledge, the mission of the organization changes over time towards self preservation. And even naturopathic colleges and Chinese medicine colleges, you know, all participated in the COVID rituals, for example, Correct? Absolutely. And, and, and grotesquely to a, a farther extent than I expected. So yes, absolutely. So yeah, no, it’s, it’s the same, you know, it’s ssdd, same crap, different, you know, different day. But at least I was forwarded the opportunity to have professionals who were experienced in other aspects of health teach me.

Right. So I wouldn’t have had that experience in regular conventional medical school. So some of my courses transferred and. But one course that I had to not so much do again, but I had to kind of like do. The second part was microbiology. And so we had a lab and we had courses. We had class, clinic, you know, classroom work. The lab was one of the major projects in lab was to culture something. And in culturing that something, you, you know, you’re taking a swab of an object and then you’re going to culture it in different mediums, in different environments, like different temperatures and things like that.

And you have to write, you know, your report, what you see under the microscope. So this is just any bacteria that’s in the environment, not from like a. A clinical specimen? No, no. Like, I swabbed my cell phone. Like, that’s. That was my. That was my project, swabbing my cell phone. You know, other people did their shoe, some people did their hair clip. You know, everybody did different things. I decided, you know, go for the. Go for the gold and just do something that, you know, touches me all the time. So I swabbed my cell phone and I had it and you know, different petri dishes.

And, you know, the method of doing it, you have to kind of do it a certain way. You burn it on the Bunsen burner and you scrape the agar. Oh, you need to sterilize the dish and then put the culture medium in and then the sterile method. Right, exactly. Sure. I’ve done that millions of times. Millions of times. So I did it. And then, you know, you have to check on your culture. You have to see. See what’s going on. So you have to take a little sample of it and look at it under the microscope.

So I looked at it under the microscope. One of my samples that was. I think it was in 90, about like body temperature. I think it was in the 98 degree, you know, little incubator. Yeah, exactly. And, and so then I looked under the microscope and I’m having. I’m seeing these forms, these bacterial forms that are not round but not long. So they’re not one form or another. They’re like in between forms. So, and for those are. That are listening, you know, we’re. We’re taught that bacteria have either circular form. Right. Bacillus. Right, right. So mine were kind of like doing like the, the kind of weird, like ovally thing in between.

Now, I have seen on lab reports from a culture, Coxo bacilli. Right, exactly. But what was strange was I had the oval forms, the coxobacilli, but then I had both the cocca and the bacilli at the same Time. So they were. It was like they were changing. They were dancing and going to different forms, back and forth. So I reported that, and I told the professor, and he said, that doesn’t seem right. So. So he’s like, you know, swab your phone again. Do it again. I had to do it all again. And I was having the same results.

It’s as if I was catching them doing the dance to go in between the different. Those different stages or the different forms. And I said, look, this is happening again. And I kept on getting like, you’re doing the, you know, the sterile method wrong. You’re doing something wrong. You’re doing something wrong. So I was like, even. Even if you made a mistake, there still had to be an explanation. Right, Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. So I was like. But I swear, you know, like, you. You start to, like, second guess your abilities. Like, you second guess your observation skills, your.

Your lab skill, everything. So I, He. I had to come extra times because he’s like, we’re gonna go over it. Like, you know, oh, you don’t. You don’t know how to do the sterile method. You’re not doing it right. You’re not holding in the Bunsen burner long enough or something. So he did it. He did it with me. Like, he literally did his own petri dish. And we stick it in the incubator and we have the same result. So he’s like, well, you know, there’s something going on here. You’re gonna have to just write that up in your report.

I, you know, I’ve never seen this before. So, you know, you do that. And it happened to be that I. That was always in the back of my head, that something was different, that something was off. Like, it didn’t make sense that I was stuck. I was the only one in the class that was stuck with this issue. And it just happened to be. I just kind of was delving into these. This idea of, you know, there’s. Maybe there’s. I discovered new bacteria, you know, like something, something. And almost a year later, there was an opening for a job for a company called Clio Sanum.

They don’t exist anymore here in the States, but sanem, the company that’s in Germany, exists still. And so they were looking for a rep for the company, and I was like, hey, yeah, whatever, I’ll make some extra dough, you know, whatever. I didn’t know. It was, like, completely nonchalant, like, I didn’t make it a big deal. But they were recruiting from the. From your school. Yeah, they already had a rep in my school, but she was graduating and I never even heard of the company. So, you know, I didn’t. Maybe she didn’t really kind of understand her job or she didn’t really do her job, but I didn’t even know that they existed in my school.

So I go to. I’m offered, you know, like, you’re going to get this interview in a week. Here’s the material. Look at this website. You know, look at the, you know, we will send you some in the mail. A big package of paperwork that you could read and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I remember sitting on my living room floor in my. In the condo I was renting for school, and I spread out all this information. I was looking at my laptop and I was like, this makes sense. This is what happened to me in school a year ago.

And it was basically Pleosanum Sanum made the remedies for Ender line isopathic remedies. And they talked about pleomorphism and they show you the whole cycle and, you know, you change the environment and they change form. And I was like, this is it. This is what happened. Oh, my gosh, this is serendipitous. So I was soaking up that information. Like, I was reading everything they gave me, highlighting it. I had a folder, a binder. You know, I was looking on the Internet, I was researching. I started learning about Bashar, like, everything, everything that I can get my hands on, I did.

At that time, when you kind of made that realization and connected it to your microbiology course experience, did you ask the question, you know, why don’t my professors know about this? Or why is this not part of my curriculum? So once I had the interview and I was hired within 15 minutes, yeah, I had a discussion with the medical liaison, who’s. Who’s the one that hired me, you know, for the company. And I said, why isn’t this being presented? And he said to me, he’s like, because he was teaching in the naturopathic school in Arizona. So he also was confronted with the same kind of, you know, like, why isn’t this being taught in school? And again, the germ theory was basically the dominant thought pattern of all schooling.

So it’s presented as another theory. It’s. It’s presented as like, oh, it was the concoction of this, this doctor or, you know, this scientist. And it’s like, something to think about. But it’s not going to be something that we’re going to wrap into our lesson. Plans. So I said I actually made it a, I made it a thing for me. It was going to be a goal that I was going to teach every single student, whether it be extra time that I was going to have to do it. I was going to teach every single student in our school about pleomorphism, microzymas and isopathic remedies.

Well, that’s a pretty big undertaking for someone who’s still learning themselves. Right? Why don’t we take this opportunity to introduce exactly what you’re talking about when you say pleomorphism and all those other fancy words. Absolutely. So when I was learning about this, I learned that the bacteria we see, the fungus that we see, the mycobacterium that see any microorganism in what we believe to be as a definitive form isn’t a definitive form. It’s a form that is derived by the adaptation of a sub microscopic organism or thing called a microzyma. So we’re going to call it microzyma from now on because it’s, it’s harder to go with all the different scientists that found it and named it.

In my book, I call it precursor because it’s a, a tell of what it’s actually doing. Right. It’s a precursor of all the different microorganisms. But Bashamp coined it microzyma because he believed it to be essentially initiating processes in the body as well. So these, Microsoft is b the first scientists to observe this and write about it in detail. Yes, absolutely. He was the first to really understand what he was looking at because again, when Leeuwenhoek made the microscope and he saw his animal, he doesn’t talk about changing forms or things like that. He just sees these little things scurrying around.

And so he calls because remember he looked at his, the tartar of his teeth, but we don’t know for like fully what he was really experiencing and if he really kind of took the time to see them change or do anything. So Basham was really the first person, the first intellect to really go extensively writing about it. I mean he has his one treaties on it. It’s like, I think it’s like 1800 pages. And he has endless, endless, endless works. I mean we’re talking hundreds of works and studies and experiments that he’s done that he’s recorded.

So let me just help clarify this for the audience a little bit. So we’re talking about that there is a form of bacteria that’s smaller than bacterial cells of various species that is capable of changing into or differentiating and morphing into these various bacterial forms. And there are different scientists who have sort of independently it seems, discovered these bodies but didn’t necessarily know about each other because it was before the information age. I mean Gaston Naissance is one of the more recent scientists and I found out from a lecture of his that he was already like a decade into his research when he discovered that there were other scientists who do you know who saw the same phenomenon before.

It’s true. And so there are different names because of that. And micro zyma or you know, little bodies. Right is the name that Basham used. But they’re also the words protein, somatide, bion that are all describing the same thing. And how do you see these, how do you observe them in their native form? Where, where would you see them? What kind of technology do you need so you can see them most simply. And I just want to reference, they’re not bacteria at their basic form. They’re, they’re colloid proteins in their basic form. They’re literally formless and they’re really, really, really small.

So when they’re in their super basic form, do we, when you say they’re colloid proteins, are there experiments that actually do a structural analysis of what they’re made of? I think Gaston was the only one that kind of came to that conclusion. Based on his analyses, I don’t think be was able to conclusively know exactly what they were in form. But the fact that they can expand in their size in a short period of time means that there’s some sort of building block that they’re, they’re consistent of. So the only, the only building block that can expand and multiply and create a structure that you know, utilizes material around it would be colloid like right? And then the protein would be the pro, some sort of protein backbone that can again progressively get bigger and create more protein based forms.

Let me just clarify, right? We’re not talking about anything magical when we’re saying the they would get bigger because you know, we already are aware of bacterial spores for example, which is a way that bacteria can, you know, preserve themselves in adverse environment. And it’s much smaller form than the full size bacteria. And also we have seeds and plants, right that we see one little seed grows into entire plant. And you know, when I heard about this at first and really every time I see the pleomorphic cycle, it so closely resembles all of the, the cycles of stem cells from human physiology.

Right? Like we start off with the, let’s say the Hematopoietic stem cell and the bone marrow. Right. And that becomes every kind of blood cell. And there are all these cycles that you could see. It becomes. It changes shape, it changes size, it changes form. Right. The same thing we’re talking about with microorganisms. So it’s not really that mysterious or magical. No. And if you were to really dive deep in a lot of Enderline’s work, and he used to put out a journal when he was alive, he had a journal, and he used to write up many different things that he did.

There was, there was one work that was reiterated by many scientists after, where he talks about witnessing the, the microzymas, those, those precursors we’re talking about come together and create different types of communities. And essentially he was witnessing them come together and make a cell. So he suspected that prodits, the reason why he called it prodits, pro, meaning the first, he believed that the microzymus, or what he called protists, were actually the thing that created the cells in our very own body. So not just the, the bacterial forms, the fungal forms in all that cycle, but he believed that they were the base of our own cellular structure.

So in other words, that this could be the base unit of all life forms. Yep, yep, exactly. That’s what he actually said. He said Rudolph Biel was actually wrong saying that the cell was the, the smallest unit of life. He believed that the prototype, slash, microzyma, was the smallest unit of life. Now, one thing really fascinating, if this is actually true, and, you know, one of the big problems, just to let everyone know, is that because the mainstream does not acknowledge the existence of these entities, there’s very little research that that’s been done. So we don’t, you know, we don’t know all the answers yet.

But these microzymas have been found in inanimate natural materials. Absolutely right. And, and even in that form, they are capable of becoming organisms, as Basham originally demonstrated in one experiment with natural chalk, for example. So we’re kind of saying that life can begin in any environment whether or not there are other living organisms in that environment. Absolutely. And I actually got to witness it firsthand. So I, at, at the conference, the terrainology conference, I met up with Topher Gardner and I learned about biochar, and I took it upon myself because again, now I’m just obsessed with my microscope.

I took it upon myself to make some biochar and to look at biochar under the microscope. So for, again, anybody who doesn’t know biochar is biological charcoal. You’re basically burning leaves and branches and wood. And you’re burning it not to ash, but you’re burning it to a stage where it’s still black. It’s basically charcoal. It’s Right. And this is done in what they call a non pyrolytic burn, which is a very low or zero oxygen environment. Right. So it’s. So it’s different than charcoal, in other words, which is made in an oxygen rich environment. Correct. So I looked at it under.

And before I all I did was add. So we burned leaves, a bunch of leaves. We burned leaves and then we added distilled water to cool it off so that it wouldn’t get to ash. And then I took a little bit of it. I kind of grind, ground it down a little bit, put it on a slide, put a little more distilled water on it, Looked underneath and you see these spectacular little sparkly pieces of charcoal or sparkly pieces of dry material. And then you’re seeing almost as if you’re seeing little micro diamonds all around. You’re seeing the microzymus in the back.

It’s not a lot, but they’re there. So even under those conditions, the microzymas are still there. And, and that’s kind of the point is to, for them to turn into bacteria in the soil to help deliver the nutrients, the minerals to the plants. Right? Correct. And they’re sort of a matrix for the microbial growth. Exactly. Well, this is, you know, really fantastic that you were able to, to do that and witness that. What kind of equipment do you need to see these microzymas? So a good solid, very, you know, light compound microscope. You want to have objectives of 10, 20, 40 and you want to have a darkfield oil condenser because the regular dark field condenser won’t give you a real crisp, clear background.

So we’re not looking at the foreground and all the big stuff like the red blood cells. I mean, you are looking at it, but it’s not like the highlight. You’re looking at the background. You’re looking at, you know, the black screen behind and all the sparkly things that are in the black screen behind the. So that’s what the dark field does it. A light compound brings the light to and lights the background. So when you’re looking at an image of a regular light microscope image, the background is usually whitish white or like a very, very light gray.

If you’re looking at a darker gray, you’re looking at phase contrast, which again you still can’t see them as well. You can’t almost see them at all. And then dark field actually uses kind of like refraction where it’s lighting the objects in the image, not the background. And the background’s black. So you can see them very well in a dark field in a, in a light microscope with a dark field condenser. And one of the, you know, reasons why the mainstream does not acknowledge these is because they don’t use that type of microscopy. Is that correct? Correct, correct.

And I mean, they also don’t look at living specimens, right? Because. Yes, absolutely. No, that’s. Now, I don’t know if you, you know, if you have an H and E fixed blood smear, can, can you see them in, in a dark field? You can. Have you ever tried that? I mean, it depends. So I did another experiment with methylene blue. Now everybody’s using it as like a, you know, a thing. And methylene blue for, again, people that don’t know, was actually used as a stain. So it was used as a stain in microscopy. And so I did an experiment to see, okay, what, what would happen if I did, you know, took a blood smear and I put a micro dot.

I literally put a micro dot of diluted, diluted 0.1% methylene blue with my, with a drop of my blood. And I let it. Basically I put the COVID slip on and I put a syringe micro dot of it. I don’t even, I can’t even quantify how much I put. It was just a little. And I let it kind of slowly slip into the slide under the COVID slip. And I watched it on, on camera. And as it started coming in, it started staining my red blood. Because when you see on dark field, red blood cells aren’t really red.

They’re like. Yeah, you, you just see the outline. Really? Yeah, they’re glowing a little bit. So I had to look at it in both avenues. But what was really interesting is with the dark field, it actually started creating more of a refraction of color. So it started to stain my sample, my blood blue and created almost like a blue reddish pink. And while it was doing that, it was lysing all my red blood cells and fixing them, basically drying them to the, the slide. And all the activity that was there started to, to literally almost like dry up and just kind of fix to the slide itself.

So, I mean, can you do it with a stain? You might get a little activity, but I don’t think you’re going to get too, too much activity because Again, you’re changing the environment of the blood or your smear or your. Whatever sample you have on the slide, and the micro. Microzymus have to adjust according to it. Well, that’s very interesting. So just to clarify, you said that basically all the red blood cells were killed by the methylene blue? Yes. Okay. Just. I want everybody who takes methylene blue to know what it does to red blood cells.

Yeah, yeah, it’s. It, basically the idea is it’s suppressing movement, it’s suppressing action, it’s suppressing activity. So what I was witnessing was basically you’re seeing these beautiful colors and. But you’re seeing cell death. So a lot of people who are experiencing. Not to digress, but a lot of people who take methylene blue and experience euphoria or experience some sort of relief, but it’s basically just suppressing the activity of the symptom that you’re feeling, and it’s not really healing you in any way. All right, well, that. That’s very helpful. And if you guys want to learn more about methylene blue, I have video in this series on that topic especially.

Yes, well, this is, you know, such an interesting topic, Marcel. I just. I want to know more, you know, about it. So how. What have you been able to learn about, like, the physical properties of the microzyma? Like, I know that Nasans, for example, was able to isolate and purify them and do a variety of experiments that I, you know, I want to be able to get to that point. It’s a little difficult because I don’t have a lab. I don’t have a nice big, you know, and I want several microscopes to kind of jump from different things and do different things.

So right now I’m just working on one microscope in a small office. But what I have seen from my own is I’ve actually witnessed pleomorphism. I actually witnessed the changes that happen as the blood dies on the slide because many people forget that once blood is taken out of the body, it starts to become something different. It’s not in your body anymore. It’s not, you know, getting the nourishment of being in the body. So we’re witnessing something different. We’re w. Witnessing decay, destruction, decomposition. In that I get to witness the. How the microzymas react as the decomposition happens.

So I was able to witness, you know, different changes in the. In the plasma. I was able to witness changes within the cells themselves. I was actually, in some instances, I actually get to see the microzymas go into the Red blood cells and change the red blood cells orientation and shape and form. So it’s very interesting to see the dynamic of what, what they do, whether it be in the plasma or in the cell, or even, you know, when it’s with platelets or white blood cells. So really what, what we’re saying here in part is that all of the bacteria, or at least a large portion of the bacteria that live in our body actually already come from inside of us.

Correct. They’re not from the external environment. And, and you know, it’s, it’s pretty well known that when human bodies decompose, for example. Right. The bacteria and other microbes that decompose the body come from inside. Right. Not from the external environment. Correct. So of course, this directly speaks to germ theory, at least with respect to bacteria and fungal so called diseases. Because if these organisms are already in our body, you know, how could they be the cause of, of a disease? Right. And also, how could, how could it be, you know, contagious? Right? Because we all have them in our bodies.

We all have them. That’s right. That’s right. And it’s, it’s very telling because of the fact that once you understand that, once you understand that microzymus will change with the environmental change of the body, microzymus change with the environmental change outside of your body. They are just responding and adapting to whatever’s going on. And another scientist, Royal Rife, also created a microscope just like Gaston, and he was able to witness all the different changes as well, all the pleomorphic cycle. Although he said, based on his microscopic understanding, that with minute changes of ph, minute changes of salinity, minute changes of temperature, and even minute changes of sunlight, you have billions if not more forms that can, can occur based on all those different variable changes.

So if we already understand that, then we understand if you eat a certain food, if you think a certain way, if you do a certain activity, if you have certain processes happening, natural processes. Right. A woman goes through menses, a men’s testosterone may drop, all these changes will change the forms inside of you. And you know, can we interpret that as that they are essentially adapting to the needs of the body? Correct. Because they work synergistically with it. Absolutely. And you know, this can result, right, in that, that they can facilitate, you know, healing as well as facilitate death.

Absolutely. Well, they are separate, Right. We know separate means to break down dead tissue. So you need to make space. Like the one thing that always clicked with me in understanding how microorganisms work is osteoblast and osteoclasts. Right. We learned that in med school. Right. So blast, build, class, break down. So if you’re in order to build bone. How do we build bone? If we have disrupted or decayed or diseased bone, we have no space for it. It’s like trying to build a skyscraper where there’s already a skyscraper scraper standing. You can’t. You got to break it down first to make the space to build up the new building.

Right. Or if you have a leak in your roof and you want to repair it. Right. First you have to remove the material that’s water damaged and rotted and then replace it with new material, right? Absolutely. And so microorganisms are doing that. When you have diseased tissue based on toxic exposure or malnutrition or you trauma, right. You have a huge break or a cut on your skin. That inflammation process is the body and them working together to crew to remove that tissue so that it can make space for new tissue to be built there. The problem with medicine is that it looks at inflammation.

It has taught us that inflammation, again, this is, I remember this distinction distinctly in both naturopathic school and medical school. Inflammation was bad. We’ve got to stop inflammation. That swelling, that heat that you get on your ankle when you sprained it is important. It creates blood flow, it creates lymph flow. It’s moving the junk out, right? It’s like, you know, again, that skyscraper, they broke down the skyscraper. You need now a congestion of construction workers and you need a, you know, you have to close off the roads from normal, you know, normal activity. And you have to have all these people, workers breaking down the material and bringing it to the dumps.

And so a lot of the times inflammation is like a bad word. I mean, even to this day, alternative or complimentary medicine is, oh, you need this. This food is an anti inflammatory food. Or this is an anti inflammatory, like, what are you doing, man? You don’t want to do that. I think we have the same pet peeves about mainstream medicine for ourselves. I’ve definitely talked about this. And even the mainstream acknowledges in the research literature that inflammation is a healing process and a natural process, right? And then you can see a lot of alternative health influencers saying that inflammation is actually the real cause of, of the disease.

But how could a natural physiologic process be, you know, the cause of a disease? That doesn’t really make sense. And, and what, what’s really going on, in my opinion. And maybe this is, you know, a segue into homotoxicology is that the healing pathways are blocked in many people because of probably chronic toxicity, maybe surgical scars, injuries, emotional trauma. And the inflammation cannot accomplish its task because of the blockages. Right. And then we get chronic inflammation and instead of realizing that it’s, it’s being blocked, we blame the inflammation instead. Right, exactly. And even when it’s chronic inflammation, that doesn’t mean we want to stop it because that’s basically holding the fort.

It’s holding, holding together something that has, is, is very weak and disrupted. It’s kind of like, you know, when you take a COX2 inhibitor, right? You take, I have my knee pain, so I’m going to run the marathon. I love that commercial. That was my favorite commercial. Like I think it was the Aleve commercial where it’s like, oh, I want to still go in with the marathon. So I’m going to take Aleve so I can keep going because of my knees. And it’s like, no, your knees are telling you not to run the marathon because now you’re not going to feel the pain and you’re going to keep going.

And now you have complete destruction of your cartilage. So it’s kind of like if they were repairing a bridge and you know, they laid down some of the structural elements and then the workers went on strike because the city refused to pay. Right. And that would be like the anti inflammatory drug. And then people go across the bridge anyway, their car is going to go right into the water. Right. And they’ll keep going. Like nobody just, nobody’s paying attention to the first guy. They just keep going. So what, so can you talk a little bit about homotoxicology and the evolution, right.

Of the different organisms from the microzyma and then how do the blockages occur and relate to the, you know, progression through the different disease conditions? Sure, sure, sure. So Rekwig is the one that designed. If you look up homotoxicology and Rickwood’s chart of homotoxicology, which is a really nice chart that tells you the different stages and levels of elimination. Right. So the easiest understanding of elimination would be like sneezing. Right. Something’s in, you know, something bothered you. It could be in the air or it could be something that you even ate. Like I, I witnessed my sister sneeze literally 15 minutes after she’s had some white sugar.

Like she sneezes. So it’s, I’ve, I’ve experienced this myself from, from pizza cheese. Oh, there you go. Pasteurized cheese with the. Oh, that’s the trifecta of wonderful, like the wheat, the oil, the cheese. Absolutely perfect. So, yeah, you, you have a response of, I need to get this out. And so that is the, you know, the body telling you the symptoms are always the signs of this is what’s happening. I’m letting you know. And as you go further and further, and the only way you go further and further towards deeper, stronger eliminatory patterns is because either the simple symptoms or the simple patterns are suppressed.

Right. So you, you keep sneezing, but you, you don’t know it’s the pizza. So this time you take Claritin or you take some, you know, nose spray that stops you from sneezing so much. So the next step would be like, inflamed, you know, turbinates, like inflamed sinuses. Right. Chronic sinusitis. Right, exactly. So you’re like, oh, you know, and you continue to not realize that it’s the pizza. So you’re like, oh, I have a sinus infection. This, that and the other. Again, that’s the heightened step. Right. So the body’s going, I need to still eliminate this. But you’re not paying attention.

So I’m going to increase blood flow and increase mucus flow, increase the surface area of the area that’s inflamed. Right. To try to eliminate out whatever it is I’m trying to eliminate. Obviously, when you take a swab, you’re going to see bacteria or you’re going to see fungus, because that’s an indication that those microorganisms are trying to help, because the initial stages of sneezing was ignored. So now the body needs know, all hands on deck to try to get what’s going on out. Now you have your sinusitis. You either take more medicines or you take antibiotics, or, you know, even certain herbs can be suppressive because again, it’s all about understanding what you need, what your body needs to do and support that, not go against it.

So you take more suppressive medicines and it embeds deeper and deeper into your body. And so now the eliminatory processes are being suppressed and the body goes, okay, we can’t get it out this way, so maybe we can get it out through the lungs and breathing. So then you have bronchitis or mucus in your lungs or things like that, or you have some sort of mucus buildup in your gut. And now you’re having, you know, constipation, diarrhea, things like that. You, you have breakouts of rashes on your skin. Because the body’s trying to get it out some way.

And skin is a huge detox organ. So it gets deeper and deeper and deeper until you get to a point where there’s like a delineation between the body trying to get it out to now it’s so much and so overwhelmed, it’s going to start storing it in tissues because it just can’t. With all the stressors we have in our world, it’s kind of going well. You breathe in chemicals, you eat chemicals, you’re not defecating enough, you don’t drink enough clean fresh water, you’re not getting sunlight, you’re not getting fresh air. I can’t handle this toxin that’s already here.

So I’m going to store it in some tissue and basically surround it with like a biofilm or surrounded with extracellular creations which are, you know, neoplastic or dysplastic because I need to protect myself. So this is where you go from a sneeze to potentially producing tumorous or tumorous growths or masses in places. So, you know, we can see here that many of the pharmaceuticals are actually designed to contribute to this process. Now, maybe unknowingly, right? Because what the way that they’re evaluated is by reduction or improvement in, in the symptoms, right. Which is the symptoms are related to a body’s actual healing process.

Right? Right. And we’re turning those off with these pharmaceuticals. And it occurred to me while you were talking that it’s all of the over the counter drugs that start this process, right? Because what, you have a cold, so you take an antihistamine to suppress sneezing and runny nose and dry, dry you out, right. You take a decongestant to reverse the vasodilatation from bringing extra blood for healing. You have diarrhea or nausea, you take lomodil or some over the counter opioid, right. To shut down your bowel elimination and all those things force the problem deeper into the body, even though you may get short term relief.

Right. And, and eventually if you keep suppressing it, because even when it turns into a chronic process, you know, like COPD or rheumatoid arthritis or angina or whatever it’s going to be, what do you do? You still go and get more suppressive drugs, you know, get steroids, you know, things like that, that counteract the body’s attempt to restore homeostasis, or you go natural and you do the same thing. You get a homeopathic remedy that stops it. You get an herb that Stops it without actually understanding why your body is doing it. So, you know, the, the natural world isn’t without its own faults in terms of that, because people can walk into a health food store and go, ooh, sinus infection.

Here’s the homeopathic remedy for it. So what, Maricel, what are some specific remedies that will actually suppress the, these healing mechanisms? So again, it’s a matter of understanding that you want to work with the body. And the problem is that a lot of the times people fear the symptom, right? So if you have diarrhea for a couple of days, what is your first human thought? I can’t have diarrhea forever. Right? So that’s a human response. And I totally get it. Diarrhea is very annoying, believe me. I had one time, I, it was like 30 times I went to the bathroom.

I totally get it, believe me. But at the same time, you have to understand what is it that the body is trying to get rid of? And if is this substance really, really toxic? And do I want to have it in there? Maybe it takes a couple days for it to come out. So remedies that support the body’s emphasis of elimination, but in a more efficient way. Right. So I want, I don’t want diarrhea per se, but I want to continue to eliminate. So let me propose what I might suggest in that situation. And you tell me, does this support the body’s function? So, so let’s say diarrhea is the main presentation.

So first I would think of increased hydration because you’re losing more water. And the body can’t continue to mount diarrhea without having enough fluids. Correct. And then the second thing I would think of might be something like charcoal, which can help absorb some of the toxins that are already in the colon to support what the body’s trying to do with the diarrhea. Okay, so how does that sound? Don’t forget perfect. Don’t forget you need minerals too, because you’re not just losing water, you’re losing a ton of minerals as you’re defecating as well. You’re defecating and urinating.

So you want minerals as well. I always have people. It’s a really, really good mixture. It’s kind of like the old fashioned Gatorade. I have people add a salt, a good clean sea salt. I add a little bit of raw honey, and I add a little bit of squeeze of lemon. And you drink that when you have diarrhea. You keep drinking that and that will resupply you resupply. And as long as you’re urinating, you’re hydrated. Well, that’s interesting. So I think my version of that would probably be water with molasses and shilajit. Perfect. Perfect combination. So you’re basically getting the same thing.

Some people do oranges, some people do lemons. Um, some people do the. The shilajit. Some people do, you know, Celtic sea salt or, you know, different variations of salts. Um, the idea is you want to have a. You want to re. Refurbish the body with what it’s losing so that it can continue doing what it needs to do. But if you add that charcoal, the likelihood of expediting the problem will be enhanced. Right. You want to make it more efficient. Right. Then here’s the other deal is, are you adding insults? So that’s. That’s a one avenue, somewhat in context, you know, understanding.

But we have to also understand a lot of times people continue to eat aggravating foods while they’re having diarrhea. They’re drinking aggravating things while they have diarrhea, they’re doing stressful activities while they’re having diarrhea. So we have to understand also that we’re in. We incite more stress on the body when the body’s detoxing. So we have to kind of step back and go, this activity is happening. Let me, for lack of better words, create, you know, space for that. You know, create time, convalesce for that and keep the energy reserves for that activity. So it would probably be a good time for fasting or a liquid diet.

Perfect. At least while the diarrhea was active. Absolutely, absolutely. So I think we could all see that if you are aware of these principles, you can almost figure out what to. What’s the best thing to do for your body in these situations. The emphasis on understanding microzymus is that it’s working with your body, which means what should you do? Work with your body as well. It’s a really huge sign of it. And unfortunately, again, we have the conventional, you know, health ideology, which is based on the germ theory that is always, well, if this is occurring, we need to kind of stop it.

If this is, you know, if this has been happening a long time, we need to kind of calm it down. No, we need to listen and understand it and interpret it. And I think a lot of times, I think that’s the one thing that the big lesson I learned is when I understood, you know, when someone came up with strep in their throat it was a marker and it was an. I learned to interpret it like almost like a Rosetta stone kind of thing. Like, I understood that strep was there because it was doing a job.

So what do I need to do to help the body so that the strep can pleomorph back into its more, you know, smaller maintenance form? And what, what would that be? It would be supporting the tissue. Right. So strep, you know, for people that don’t know, strep is a bacteria that likes to be in the presence of blood. Right. So if you. If you work in the lab, you understand that to grow strep, you’re using a petri dish that has blood in it. So if strep is showing up, that means that the tissue is actually breaking down and even maybe have microbleeds.

Which means if the tissue is broken down and have microbleeds, we need things to help repair the mucosa of the throat of that tissue. We need things to help repair the elasticity and the tissue itself from being wounded. So something like bone broth. Absolutely. Bone broth. A marshmallow root again, even fasting sometimes, or, you know, for some people, even going like one day without speaking, which I don’t. I don’t know how to do that, but one day without speaking, you know, you have to do a vipassana retreat. Exactly. So, you know, just it. Understanding, you know, because we didn’t get into the pleomorphic cycle, but understanding that you are trying to bring it back to the simple forms of the microzyma and that, oh, anytime you see an organism on your body, it’s not to fight them, it’s to understand that they’re telling you something.

They are the rosetta of some sort of degradation, some sort of decompetition, some sort of trauma toxin, something that needs help. And they are the help. And of course, we can deduce something about the nature of the problem from observing and learning about, you know, the particular species that we see at the site of disease. Right, exactly. So if you see on your skin, staph versus you see candida on your skin or yeast on your skin, those. There’s a different issue. Although it’s still the skin obviously needs help from the outside, from the inside, but the form that’s there, that’s showing up tells us a story.

And it tells us a story of what’s going on with the balance of that area of that particular organization, as well as the balance of the body itself. And are. Are there forms that indicate more advanced or serious health concern. Right. So on the pleomorphic cycle, we start off with the microzymas, we go to bacteria. Then as the terrain starts to become more acidic, more degraded, you’re looking at. Then you’re going into mycobacterium, and then you’re going to fungal form, and then fungal form, to yeast form. So yeast is usually indication that the tissue is very much lacking oxygen, lacking blood flow, lacking nourishment.

And what about anaerobic forms of bacteria? Like, I was curious with your experiment, watching the tissue break down under the microscope, did you. Did you see anaerobic forms? There were. Yeah, there were some. It. Every tissue. It’s very interesting when you watch every person’s tissue degrade in the microscope. They don’t degrade the same way. So sometimes you get anaerobic forms, and sometimes you don’t. You just literally see it, you know, oxygen, you know, bacteria that, like oxygen. And then all you see is dry, like, fixed, done, dry. It’s very interesting that every. Every person has a unique death pattern, if you will.

So if someone is, you know, having, like, recurrent yeast infections, for example, which, you know, is not a problem caused by the yeast, would. Would you suspect that there is a more advanced issue going on internally? Yes, absolutely. Whether it’s yeast in the gut or you see actually in the mouth, you know, or in, you know, the vaginal. Well, I was. Yeah, I was talking about in the vaginal. Right. Definitely. You can see the thrush as well. So the yeast is an indication. Yeast is a very, very strong saprophyte. And so that means that the tissue itself is not getting, again, the blood, the oxygen, the nourishment it needs, it may have trauma to it.

So you’re having a lot of cellular breakdown. And a lot of times we. You know, a lot of times where the ye. Where you find yeast on the body is places where there’s. There’s not a lot of air circulation, there’s not a lot of sunlight, there’s not a lot of blood circulation. You know, we’re either sitting on those areas or those areas are bent or covered, you know, or a body cavity. Right, exactly. So you, you know, we have to take the time to make sure that, you know, you’re not always sitting, your feet are not always cramped in a sweaty cotton sock and a shoe, you know, or, you know, like, even runners.

Runners get yeast on their toes. Why? Because you’re getting the trauma of running and slamming those toes. Now, the shoes are much better, but back in the day, you know, you had these tight, tight sneakers that, you know, eventually I would have, I would have patients that their toes were like, during running, their toes would start to get numb and they were like, oh, that’s normal. And it’s like, no, that’s not normal. So it’s, it. We have to take into account that our, our body needs circulation, our body needs flow. And when there’s a lack of that over the course of time, continuously, you’re going to have organisms that show up that are going to be doing their job with great perseverance.

Well, fantastic. You know, it’s, this has been a really interesting discussion because we can now have a whole new perspective. And I think a lot of people have talked about, you know, terrain theory and exalt it as kind of a magical notion a little bit and think, you know, but I’m not sure exactly what people mean when they say that. And, but what we’re talking about here really with, you know, the combination of pleomorphic theory and homotoxicology is we have, you know, a solid testable model that we can put forth. Right. To explain disease. And it provides, you know, rich diagnostic observations that help us assess the problem.

And it provides, you know, a clear rationale of how to help your body heal and restore health. You know, if, if it’s possible because, you know, the, the Death rate is 100%, so we can’t avoid that. And sometimes, you know, from a clinical point of view is just accepting that, you know, that, that it’s your time. But for, for most folks in most conditions, if you can get out of the way, right. Stop putting more poison in the body, at least whatever the poisons are that you know about or you can know about. Right. And support the body’s healing mechanisms and not, you know, blame things that aren’t the cause, like the germs, we can really have amazing health.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well said. And you know, I, I look at, I look at, I have, you know, microbiology books, old ones. I don’t even know why I keep them, but I have them. And then, you know, the diagnostic books and, and, and textbooks and things like that that we get from school and I, I, one day I will take it upon myself to rewrite it. Because if, again, like you said, if we can look at organisms as indicators, as markers to help guide us as to how to help a person, healthcare would be extremely different. Yeah.

Far easier, less expensive and way more successful. Exactly. Marzel, thank you so much for educating us on these important and wondrous topics today. How can people, you know, get your book? How can they work with you or find out more about what you’re doing? My book can be found on Amazon. You can also find it on Bookshop and Thrift Books, I think. Thank you. And you can also, if you want to have multiple copies, we have a website, Germs Are Not Our Enemy dot com. So if you want to get, you know, more than one, you can probably get a discount in terms of like, bulk order.

Like this would be good for a homeschool co op, for example. Absolutely. Because this book can definitely be read by high school students. Yeah, absolutely. I tried to. My editor said to tone down a lot of the sciencey stuff, so I had to bring it down. So I wanted it to be so that people can be, you know, it could be the door that opens them to the world. Listen, you really did a great job with that because, you know, of course when I read it, I was craving a more advanced text, but I saw like, you really took the time to not take the reader’s knowledge for granted and to spell out the, the introductory and background concepts very clearly.

So this would be a really good book for a, you know, a real biology curriculum. Fantastic. Thank you. But yeah, I hope to have a more, more extended, professional, unabridged version. So that, that should, that should come out. You know, I shouldn’t say soon, but that will come out. But yeah, you can find me in terrain. Doctor.com youm can also find me on substack. I’m always writing articles to reinforce course, you know, what you learn in the book. And I’m kind of on Instagram, so sort of there, not really there that often. I should be, but I’m not.

But substack, you find me Dr. Maricel and then Terrain. Doctor.com well, fantastic. I definitely encourage everyone to go and sign up for Dr. Arce’s substack and definitely read her book and maybe we’ll, you know, have a part two of this discussion and get into some more advanced topics down the road. But until then, I’ll see everyone on the next True Health Report.
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