➡ The interview discusses the rising costs of veterinary care, attributing it to factors like private equity consolidation and the lack of insurance in the industry. The guest explains that vets often upsell unnecessary services, leading to inflated bills. This has resulted in many pet owners avoiding vet visits altogether. The conversation also touches on the shift in the veterinary industry towards female practitioners and the introduction of a healthy snack called masa chips.
➡ Masa chips are tasty and can be bought online or at local supermarkets. In the field of veterinary medicine, there’s a debate about telemedicine. Some believe it’s harmful and could lead to the death of many dogs, while others argue it’s a cost-effective and convenient way to provide care. The main industry association has scared vets from practicing telemedicine, but the reality is that it’s not an either-or situation – both physical visits and telemedicine can coexist.
➡ The article discusses two main topics: the weakening of the dollar and the rise of digital currency, and the challenges of accessing veterinary care. It warns about the potential downfall of paper money and the rise of digital currency or gold, cautioning against scams by gold dealers. It also introduces a trustworthy precious metals company, Battalion Metals. The second part of the article talks about a membership service called Dutch.com, which offers virtual veterinary care for up to five pets for $100 a year. However, it highlights that telemedicine for animals is not allowed in some states due to lobbying, causing difficulties for pet owners.
➡ The speaker discusses the issue of high costs in veterinary care and the lack of new vet schools being established, despite the high demand for veterinarians. They also mention a new product, the Grid Doctor, which provides reliable power in case of emergencies. The speaker then shares their personal journey as an immigrant from Uzbekistan, their experiences growing up in low-income housing, and how these experiences shaped their values and led them to co-found telemedicine companies. They also express their concern about the high costs of veterinary care after their own pet’s expensive medical treatment.
➡ The speaker discusses the importance and benefits of telemedicine for pets, arguing that it can provide quick, affordable, and less stressful care for animals. Despite resistance from some groups, the speaker believes telemedicine can coexist with traditional veterinary care, offering an additional option for pet owners. The speaker also shares personal experiences where telemedicine was beneficial in addressing pet health issues, emphasizing that it doesn’t have to replace traditional care but can be a valuable part of overall pet healthcare.

Joe, thank you for doing this. I don’t think I’ve ever. Probably have. I don’t remember. I don’t think I’ve ever interviewed an advertiser. And so I just want to be clear about why I’m doing this interview. So I called you several months ago to ask you if you wanted to advertise on our show because you have a pet related company. I love dogs. I’ve got a dog right there. And we had this conversation that was like so unbelievably interesting. So interesting that I haven’t stopped thinking about it. So that’s. I just want to be fully transparent about why I asked you to come.

Thank you for doing it. So here’s my real question. Veterinary care. Anyone who owns a dog or cat knows a lot about it. There’s no backstop, there’s no health insurance whatever. And you’ll pay anything because it’s your pet. Right. It’s a member of your family. And it’s getting really, really expensive. So can you just give us the overview? Why is it so expensive to say, bring your dog in for his shots? Like, how does this system work? Yep. Just to put a pin on that, veterinary care has grown 2x the rate of inflation. So we talk about inflation, the cost of.

Yeah. So the inflation is already high. Yeah. Veterinary inflation is double. It’s like 2x. That’s how crazy it is. So something that was $50 is literally $100 a year later. Why? There’s a number of factors. One, there’s been a lot of private equity consolidation in the space. I could have guessed that. Follow the money. So, you know, that just means less supply and the demand’s only growing. That’s one big factor. The other factor is because it’s a cash pay industry, there’s really no insurance. Right. Veterinarians, and you’ll read this in trade magazines, they build their business on production, which is basically selling you more stuff.

Yes. So a third of their revenue is dependent on you getting a blood exam, getting X ray, et cetera. And I think, to be clear, like the rank and file veterinarians are doing this only because they love pets. I think what’s happening is it’s the few business owners and ultimately, like I said, private equity that are simply raising prices for something that you’re going to pay for no matter what. Yes. And it’s scaring people. We so at Dutch, my company, 50% of our customers say they haven’t been to a vet in three years or more. Oh, I bet that people are scared that the moment they enter a vet’s office, they have a $500 bill or more literally.

So let’s just back up and go through these one by one. So the first is private equity. So private equity buys the model in general. Buys small businesses, independent businesses, links them together for efficiencies, for cost savings. Right. This is the idea. This is what they tell you. So how many. Do you have any sense of how many vets are owned by private equity now? I think it’s like, almost. It’s like a third to a half, probably. Wow. Okay. So they’ve been scooping them up. Oh, massively. In fact, this. There’s been. There’s like, two major companies that are doing it, that there was a lawsuit, that they’re creating a monopoly that’s.

That was going around. So they’ll go to owners of brick and mortar mom and pops shops. Yeah, mom and pops. And they’ll just. And they’re doing this with dentists as well and H Vac and like, basically every small business in America. And they’ll buy just a whole bunch of them. Exactly, yeah. And then become, like, regional. Yep. And then they’ll just raise the prices. Does the care get better? No, the care gets worse. Because you’re no longer bringing the. They’re doing nothing. I don’t want to, like, say nothing, but there’s really no, like, modernization of equipment or faster care.

It’s the same thing. They just literally raise the price. Huh. And it sucks. It’s, like, super unfair. I know. Well, I mean, I. You know, I’m willing to believe there are examples of private equity doing what it says it does, which is, you know, to come in and make the business better. Better for its customers, better for its owners, better for its employees. I’ve never seen that ever in any sector. But I believe there must be some time where that happened. My old veterinarian, I switched to and I asked for my. Which is owned by private equity.

And I asked for my medical records. It was 50 pages of PDF with scribble notes. I mean, there’s no way that there’s anything that you could ever find what’s there. So I don’t believe I’ve not seen any sort of better care for pets as a result at all. Yeah. But greater returns for the investors and prep for the. Yep, yeah, totally. So, okay, so how do they. Can you be specific about how they raise the prices? You suggested there’s an incentive for veterinary offices to hike the price of annual exams and shots. It’s Annual exams, but they’ll sell you more stuff, too.

So they’ll say, you know what? Your dog needs teeth cleaning. And so we need to put him under anesthesia. And that’s gonna be like, a $5,000 bill for teeth cleaning, which. $5,000? Yes. I’ve had a lot of dogs. Dozens and dozens of dogs. I’ve got five at my house right now, and I don’t think I’ve ever had a dog’s teeth cleaned. Yeah, exactly. And my dogs live a long time. Exactly. 14. Exactly. And the thing is, you’re there and you feel horrible because you only want to do what’s best for your pet. But what happens is they have a list of all the services they want to sell to you, and that’s going to be one of them.

And you feel horrible that you even have to think about the decision. Of course. And. But it’s like, that’s a lot of money. Not. I mean, most people don’t have $5,000 lying around the house. Putting your dog under anesthesia is not a small thing. I mean, dogs die. People die under anesthesia. Totally. You’re suspending life in a living thing. Totally. Yeah. So I think what happens is it’s the list of services that they’ll try to sell you and make you feel horrible that you don’t care about your dog if you don’t buy from this menu. There’s so much emotional leverage.

People are so intense about their animals. Yes. Not in my house. We have, you know, critical distance. You know, you’d do anything. You’d sell your car. I mean, I would. And so they. They have a lot of power when they’re upselling. Yes, totally. Do you? It seems like the incentives would produce, like, actually bad outcomes where your dog or cat is getting treatments they don’t need, and that might be counterproductive. Well, I think what happens is people just stop going to the vet at all. That. I mean, that’s what we’ve seen, is that there’s just a whole.

There’s tens of millions of dogs that never go to the veterinarian. At Dutch, 50% don’t go to the vet. Haven’t been to the vet in years. And it’s because they don’t want to. They don’t want to feel bad for not buying extra services for their dog. That’s amazing. What about all the shots? There are a lot of shots, and they’re very expensive. Definitely there’s vaccines. But even vaccines, like, you should. I mean, as we have at Dutch, try to Kind of. So telemedicine can’t do vaccines, but there’s definitely lower cost clinics that will do vaccines for $50 working.

Whereas in person, it’ll cost you 150 to $200 for the same thing. For a shot. Yes. Why would it cost 200 bucks for a shot? Well, they’ll say, well, I have to pay for rent and I have to pay for stat. I mean, they’ll say there’s like all this upkeep that the shot, you know, includes. Yeah, but it’s baloney. It’s obvious that goes back to private equity, raising prices and knowing the people, there’s some people who will still pay for it. So the profile of the vets that I’ve dealt with in the past 20 years have really, really changed.

It’s a female industry now. Yes. Which I think is good. Just to be honest, I feel like they’re really a lot of dog lovers. Not all. You get hard cases among vets, but most vets I know just really love animals. Yes. Christmas is here. That means you’re eating a lot. We are. It’s a tough time to get on the scale because the meals keep coming and so does the weight gain. But what if there was a way to eat eat like you want to eat without getting really fat over Christmas week? This is an ongoing concern in my house.

A snack that tastes excellent and is healthy, well, that exists. It’s called masa chips. It’s part of a growing movement to revive real food. The kind your grandparents ate before snacks were designed in labs. How do they do it? Well, we’ll tell you because it’s very simple. Masa chips are made from three ingredients. Ingredients only. 3. Organic corn, sea salt, and 100% grass fed beef tallow. That’s it. This is not some weird Franken cocktail like most big chip brands. Masa chips taste delicious and you feel way better after you’re not bloated. You don’t feel mindless. It doesn’t take you out of the game for hours.

And if you want to pick a flavor, we recommend lime. My producer is literally eating a bag right off camera right now. Ready to give it a try. Masachips.com Tucker use the code TUCKER for 25% off your first order or just click the link in the video description or scan the QR code. And if you don’t want to order online, you can also buy masa chips at your local sprouts supermarket. Stop by and pick up a bag. They’re awesome. And so what do they Think of all of this. So what’s interesting is that when it comes to just Dutch and telemedicine, we get hundreds of applications from people who wanna, who want to do telemedicine.

And actually to this point that it’s female telemedicine allows them to have a work from home, flexible schedule, which they love. The main industry association, the avma, has basically made these vets feel that if they do telemedicine, the FBI will show up at their house. What? It has scared them to death from doing telemedicine. To death. And it’s because it’s. Again, it’s comprised of these self serving, financially interested individuals who run the organization, but they have completely scared veterinarians from doing telemedicine whatsoever. Why would the FBI show up at a vet’s house? What they’ll say. And again, like, I think this is why I want your listeners to know this.

It’s just so insane. They will say that the federal law requires. Requires you to have a physical exam no matter what. Like, no matter if it’s an opinion, it’s a rash, it’s a quick question. They’ll say that the FDA website requires a physical exam, which it doesn’t. But in every conference, in every newsletter, they’ll say, oh, well, we asked the FDA and they said that you need a physical exam. So if you violate this, you might go to jail. That’s what they’ll say at every conference for years now. And they’ll vilify me and Dutch and they’ll say, this guy is gonna hurt your dog if there’s telemedicine.

Millions of dogs will die is the headline. I’m starting to laugh. I mean, that’s like obviously not true. Emotional blackmail. Yeah. So one of the main. So buy this book or we’ll shoot this dog. I mean, it really? Yeah. Millions of dogs will die. Did it really say that? Yeah. Well, again, so this is what they’ll say at a conference. What I’ve been doing now is I’ve been working with the ASPCA and a huge coalition of shelter organizations because they’re the ones that get the brunt of it. Because now millions of dogs actually also get surrendered because their owners can’t care for them.

Because they can’t afford veterinary care. Because they can’t afford veterinary care. Yes. Come on. I’m telling you, people abandon their dog. Yes. Oh, man, it. I know. It gives me chills. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah. So the only way this can change is at the state level and we’ve Been working. So in Florida, it took us four legislative sessions to allow telemedicine. And all it does is. All the law will say is that the veterinarian can use their judgment to make a decision. But may I just ask a foundational question? Why is the state involved in what kind of medical care you give your dog? Just because health care is regulated at the state level.

This is veterinary care. And that. I mean, and then. But you have opinion over your dog. I mean, right. It’s so weird that they feel like some state legislator feels like he has more power over your dog, who sleeps in your bed, who’s your dog, than you do. Like, what is that? That’s the system we live in. But actually, I will tell you this. Most legislators, once we tell them that this is a law that you need to help us with, most of them are completely on board. They don’t. They’re like, we have human healthcare. And this is like.

A lot of them will say, I didn’t even know this was an. Like you said, I didn’t even know this was an issue. This is dumb. So where it doesn’t work is when the AVMA or a lot of these state lobby groups who have hundreds of millions of dollars in annual budgets, if they’ve lined a politician’s pocket, then that’s where we will have trouble in those states, taking money from the veterinary lobby. Yeah. There are a lot of dark lobbies. We only pay attention to a couple of them, but there are so many. Yeah. So can you just quickly tell me how that works? So the AVMA is the American Veterinary Medicine Association.

Yeah. Medical association. Medical association. And why do they have an interest in preventing telehealth for animals? There’s one reason that they’ll say. And then there’s one reason that they’ll say behind closed doors. So what they’ll say in public is that they’ll say telemedicine is going to harm dogs, lead to millions of dogs dying. But what they’ll say at the hearing, behind closed doors, it’s purely financial. They think that it’s an either or choice, that if you have telemedicine, people will no longer go to the vet and their brick and mortar business is gonna die. That’s not true.

Oh, so they’re just preserving the monopoly. Yeah, they’re preserving the monopoly, just like always. Most regulation exists to preserve existing monopolies. Yes, exactly. That’s true in tech. It’s true in manufacturing. It’s true in the nicotine business. It’s true in veterinary Care. Wow. I should have known that. Duh. Oh, right. Millions of dogs will die. Like, who has died? No one. Well, so if people aren’t even bringing their dogs to the vet because it’s too expensive. Exactly. How is that good? Exactly, Exactly. Dogs are getting zero care. And you will have these people say that they will prefer that than they’ll prefer the status quo.

The industry association will say they’ll prefer the status quo than allow telemedicine. And by the way, it’s not an either or choice. It’s not like, oh, I have a video call. And now I no longer get vaccines. At the vet, we have, again, human healthcare. We still go to our brick and mortar annual checkup, whatever. And then if we have an issue at night, we. We don’t have to pine quills in your dog’s throat or, you know, cuts his leg on barbed wire. You have to go to the surgeon. That’s right. But if he has a rash, that.

And you just want to know, like, is that. Like, what is this? Why do you have to go to urgent care when you can just show again, the dogs in the comfort of their home and you use your phone and show a video of their paw. Right. Like, why do you have to drag that? Well, and that’s right. And for example, we get porcupine quills on our dogs all the time. A lot. And I wish I could say my dogs are smart enough not to try and eat porcupines, but they’re not. And every year I have to take the quills out, which is.

Takes like four hours. But I do it myself because. Well, because I know how. But also because my dogs don’t like to go to the vet at all. And it smells like death. And they can smell it. Yep. Mine do, too. Dogs are euthanized there. They know that. And so we do everything we can to prevent physical visits because the dogs are panicked. And I think most people with dogs know this. Yes. And I think cats feel the same way. Cats are even worse. Yes. Because to corral a cat, difficult, difficult, difficult. So anything as someone.

If you love animals, you want to. You want care for them. Of course, but you want to keep them out of the physical space if you can. Yep. They’re in the comfort of their home. Exactly. One of the things we see a lot is behavior and anxiety cases, and that’s even more so why they should be treated from home. Because the dog is in their natural environment. Exactly. You’re only making their situation worse by forcing them to this place. They don’t like, and then a lot of the behavior modification that happens. Telemedicine is perfect for that because you can have these regular conversations and for a fraction of the price.

Just to give you context, by the way. So, Dutch, it’s less than $100 for a year of care. If you went every month, you’d pay a hundred bucks. You’d pay like over $1,000 to treat your dog. And oftentimes when you have anxiety, you kind of need to have those regular check ins. And we had a story recently of, of this guy who had an aggressive dog. He’s been on Dutch for two years, and the dog went from crazy aggressive to now he has two buddies. Like, his life has changed. Yes. And there’s no way in the world this owner could have had the money or the time if Dutch wasn’t around to change this dog’s life.

Amazing. Yeah. And if you have a dog who bites, I’ve had a few. It’s very disruptive. And, you know, the dog can get killed by the way. You know, dogs like that either get put down by the state or can be killed in a fight. Whatever. You don’t want that at all. That’s a big. It’s a big problem. Actually, we’re talking about this morning at breakfast. You don’t need to be an economist to see what’s happening. The dollar is in trouble. It’s getting weaker. It’s sad, but we’re not in charge of it. So we have to respond appropriately in ways to protect our families.

When paper money dies, it’s going to be replaced by programmable digital currency, or gold. Gold survives. The same Americans who think they’re protecting themselves with gold are the ones getting ripped off by big gold dealers. After we left corporate media, we got offered tens of millions of dollars to promote gold companies. How do they get the money to spend that much on marketing? Because they’re scamming their customers. We didn’t want anything to do with that, so we sought an honest broker, and together we formed a precious metals company that you can actually trust. It’s called battalion medals.

At battalionmetals.com we publish actual spot prices. We’re totally transparent about the vig, what we take, and we treat everyone with honesty. So if you’ve been watching what’s happening, you know it’s not just about money. It’s about sovereignty and holding something that endures and cannot be manipulated or taken from you. So if you’ve been waiting for the right time to act, this is it. Visit battalionmetals.com. so how does it work exactly? I don’t understand the term. So it’s 100 bucks. Like, tell me how it works. What’s the alternative? So with Dutch, you go to Dutch.com, you sign up.

It’s a membership service. It’s $100 for a year of care. So for a year you can call a vet for up to five pets. And we have vets available same day. So, you know, most of appointments, by the way, are happening at night when the, Even if you have a vet, the vet’s closed. Yeah. And so you have a video call. Most calls happen on people’s phones. You talk to a local vet in your state and they’ll, you know, you’re talking to a professional and so they’ll diagnose. But you’re talking to a veterinarian. Yeah, talking to a veterinarian.

You’ll always talk to a veterinarian, a human being. And 90% of the time, and we’ve been doing this now for five years, 90% of the time, they’re able to address the issue over video. Amazing. And so does that include vaccines or what does that include? It includes the cost. So vaccines you have to do in person. And we’ll recommend a local clinic if that’s what you need. But if you, if you need medication, we have pharmacy partners who can ship that to you. You can also go to a pharmacy of your choice, but it includes kind of any of the follow up messages, chats with the vet so you don’t feel like you’re nickel and dimed.

If I have another question or if I have to follow up a week later. The other thing that’s cool about digital first is that everything is documented. So we know automatically when we should follow up for each condition. Or we know that a veterinarian needs to respond like we have goals. A veterinarian needs to respond within a matter of hours back to the patient if there’s a message during the business day. So we can also like really monitor quality metrics to make sure that customers are having a good experience. Is this nationwide? It’s nationwide, but there are about 20 states that don’t allow telemedicine for animals.

For animals? Yeah. What? Really? Yep. Because of lobbying by. Exactly. So that’s why any of the big states, Any of the big states. Some of the biggest ones, like Texas, which is crazy because California allows it, but Texas does not. And we actually had a huge bill this year that literally got killed by the adma. And it’s all because of money. That’s wild. Yep. So it’s. You are not allowed to do. So is there like an underground telehealth? Like, why don’t you just ignore the law and do it anyway? Sorry. Kind of. Well, so there’s actually on.

In Texas, there’s a court case that is now at the Supreme Court where the veterinarian said, well, I’m. It’s freedom of speech. Yeah. I’m just like, telling people, like, how their pets, you know, this is my freedom of speech. So the fifth Circuit, which is Texas, Louisiana, Missouri, has ruled in his favor, but the Attorney General has filed this as an appeal at the Supreme Court currently. Seriously? Yeah. What’s his name? Greg. I forget his name. That’s so interesting. He’s running for Senate. So right now it is illegal for anyone in Texas to call a vet on the phone and just get healthcare on the phone.

Yep. According to them. Now there’s always. So there’s two paths in Texas. There’s any state allows emerge has an emergency provision if it’s a life or death situation. And then in Texas, again, there’s this fifth Circuit decision that’s currently. So there’s like, there’s sort of this competing situation in Texas where on the one hand, the 5th Circuit says telemedicine is allowed, but the state regulations still say that it’s not allowed. I’m pretty sure I could just call up and get like, very serious drugs prescribed through telehealth as an adult. Like very serious, fully addictive benzodiazepines, for example.

You can die from going off them. I mean, this is like, way more. Way more addictive than heroin. You can’t die going off heroin. You can die going off Xanax. So it’s all about the money, but that’s totally fine. To get that from telehealth. Yes. Or amphetamines, no problem. It’s like Tijuana, you know, you get whatever you want now, but your dog can’t get treatment. Yeah, it’s definitely unfair. Well, it’s deranged. Is that changing? Are you making progress? We’re making good progress. So we’ve changed the laws in Florida, Arizona, Ohio, in a number of states. And this upcoming legislative session, we’re lobbying in 12 different states.

But definitely there’s a lot of states. I’m sure your listeners live in a lot of those states. And one of the things we did is we launched this website called savepuppies.com and if you go to savepuppies.com, i love your marketing, I mean, if they’re saying millions of dogs will die, you, you know, you’re fighting back with savepuppies.com. that wasn’t taken. I know, right? Yeah, it wasn’t taken. And so you can go there and send a letter to your local legislator. That’s the only way that things will change is at the grassroots level because we don’t have the crazy budget that these trade groups have.

Can I ask you, what does the AVMA think of private equity scooping up all the independent businesses? They’re associate. I think they’re associated with it. They’ve got no problem with that? I don’t think so. Prices going up, care declining, that they’re totally fine with that they’re against options. What? So I think again, there’s two things. What they’ll say publicly versus what happens behind closed doors. And I’ve read art. I mean, it’s like we live in two different worlds. Because what they’ll say is like, for example, one reason prices are going up is there’s also massive vet shortages because the veterinary profession has one of the biggest dropout rates of anyone.

And they’ll say, and this is just, it’s, this is just factually like True View, follow BLS Bureau of Labor Statistics. But they’ll say there’s no shortage. Or you’ll say no, prices are going up. And there’s like data that shows that they’ll say no, prices are not going up. So a lot of times when you talk to them, the surveys they put out are completely nonsensical. Right. And there’s this bottleneck in veterinary school. Totally. So that’s another thing. The avma, it’s really weird in this industry. And I think I just. Again, I’m here because like you shine a light on things and I think a lot of people.

Well, I care about this topic because I think the relationship between people and animals is just so essential. I know it sucks what they’re doing. So they. The AVMA controls accreditation for, for veterinary colleges. Okay. Like this happens in no other. Like law schools don’t have a trade association decide like who gets to have a law school. Yeah. In this industry, the AVMA controls what is deemed a vet school and they have choke hold that completely. So private equity decides whether you get to be a vet or not. I mean, in effect, if private equity is the single biggest player in this industry, that’s bonkers.

Why? I mean, it goes back to money. It goes back to when you have less supply, you can charge more because People are willing to pay more for it, so they have an incentive to reduce the number of new veterinarians coming out of school every year. It’s like, I hate to draw that line, but I think that’s. Well, if it’s about money, then it’s supply and demand because that’s, that’s what the market is. Yeah. And so the fewer vets you have, the higher the prices. Yeah, like, makes. I’ve, you know, again, I’m, I think I’m a curious person and I try to like, understand, like, could it be something else? Is there another reason? Like, why would this.

If you have high attrition, you have prices going up, you would think that the way to solve that is to have more veterinarians. Of course. And that’s just not what they’re doing. They’ve like, literally, I, at this point, know several vet schools that have just stopped development, you know, gave up because the AVMA basically told them that they’re not going to get a license. I’m not sure because there are very relatively few colleges that turn out veterinarians. Oh, there’s totally few. Like, just think I can tell you this statistic. There’s about one veterinarian for every 3,000 pets in America.

For context, the ratio in human healthcare is 1 to 20. No way. The disparity is so huge. And the amount of vet schools is so little. Like, we could, we could have, you know, dozens of vet schools pop up and it would still maybe not be enough in the next decade. And like I said, this Trader organization is refusing to launch any new schools. Well, I mean, that’s a cartel. That’s cartel behavior. It’s very much cartel behavior. And what’s crazy is I feel like then this gaslighting happens where I’m painted as the bad guy. And they’ll say, this guy Joe or Dutch, you know, he’s just self interested.

He just wants, you know, he’s the one that wants your money. And I’m like, how is that possible when I am like, reducing the cost? Like, it doesn’t make sense. Well, it wasn’t that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries. A total power loss, for example, or people freezing to death in their own homes. That could never happen here. Here, obviously, it’s America. People are recalculating, unfortunately, because they have no choice. The last few years have taught us that.

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That means it’s shielded from lightning, solar flares or an actual electromagnetic pulse event. There’s no gasoline, no noise, no emissions. You just plug it in, charge it from the wall, from your vehicle or from the included 200 watt solar panel and keep going day after day. Taking care of yourself and the people you love is solely up to you. And the amazing thing is with these new batteries, we use one at home by the way, is they’re super easy to use. There’s no inverter you need to figure out on the front of it or anything like that.

There’s like three buttons. It’s very easy and totally reliable. Highly recommended. We literally use one, as I said. Visit lastcountrysupply.com to shop the Grid Doctor for power you can trust this winter. Last Country Supply dot com. How did you get into this? Couple reasons. So prior to Dutch, I was one of the co founders of Hims and hers and so I helped start that telemedicine journey and I would say if we back it up even more, we’d have to go back to my experience coming to America and just always as an immigrant and having to figure things out.

When we, my family and I immigrated from the Soviet Union. Where to the Bay Area. No, but where in the Soviet Union? From Uzbekistan. From Uzbekistan. Former current. Separate country at this point. Yeah. But then a Soviet Republic. Yep, we. What was Uzbekistan like? You know, it’s, it’s very, it’s Muslim majority but it, I would say secular and everyone got along, I thought quite well and were Jewish and I actually didn’t even know Jews and Muslims are supposed to not get along when I, we went to each other’s weddings. There’s lots of shared history and similarity.

That’s been true, by the way. I just say factually that has been true in various parts of the world over time. You know, not always, of course there are huge problems, but then other places there are no problems and that was one of them. Yeah, so it was, you know, we, you know, I mean I had A good childhood. We left everything behind because my dad was almost thrown into a labor camp for having an illegal book, which is just like a regular. I’m sure it’s probably maybe a book on your shelf. What book is it? It’s called Exodus by Leon Uris.

No way. Yeah. And it’s huge in the 70s. Yeah. Fighting for freedom. Exactly. I think it’s a concept they didn’t want you to know about. Yeah. And we fled. We fled with. I had 100 bucks and a red suitcase. And we left. Lived in Italy in a refugee camp for several months. Eventually got political asylum to come to the United States. And then, you know, lived in low income housing for a long time in the Bay Area. In the Bay Area. What was that like? A couple things. First, my dad definitely told us that we have to assimilate, that we have to learn the language.

He himself, he was a civil engineer. And I saw him at first working flea markets just doing manual labor. And I think it showed me that he would do anything for his family to have a meal on the table. And I think later in life it showed me, you know, no one’s too good to take out the garbage. That’s right. That is exactly right. And just the value of a dollar, I still, I think, you know, I want to make sure my kids have that. But I still think, and I think back to this business. I think that’s why when I see things that are so expensive for people, I feel it in my bones, because I still know what it’s like to not have any money to make difficult decisions when you only have so many dollars every month.

What did your dad wind up doing? He ended up going back to being an engineer. Wow. He got trained education and. And he found a mentor who took him under his wing and he became an engineer again. Amazing. Yep. They really. Yeah. So in so many ways, they. They inspired me. And with that said, there’s not much that they knew about America. And so I. I knew that they would love me, but a lot of times I had to figure everything out for myself. I went to college. I paid for college myself. And I think all these things taught me to be a survivor, taught me to make something out of nothing.

And kind of that’s led me to hymns, and ultimately that led me to Dutch. Were you an animal person? We had animals. So in the Soviet Union, tons of animals. So I always definitely grew up with animals. German shepherd, great dogs. Had a black cat. So we had animals up until I was 10. And then we lived in apart in tiny, tiny apartments. And so then we got. Finally when I had a family and we had a house, we got. So that’s when we got my corgi. And that’s kind of how it all happened because I was coming off hims, it was starting to be a big company.

I always like smaller companies and when I can actually still create something. Yes. And then we got a corgi and started to see the vet bills. And then the kicker was he got into a trail mix and then we had a two thousand dollar vet bill. Trail mix? Yeah, like trail mix had like a couple M&M’s in it. Oh yeah. Not supposed to eat chocolate. Not supposed to eat M&Ms. Yeah, they like them though. Yeah, I like that. Who does? Yeah, right. And did he get sick? No, but the thing is. And that’s. The thing is then I was talking to a veterinarian friend and he said, like, you really didn’t have to do.

You didn’t have to like pump his stomach for like the three M and Ms. That he ate. And I. So then that’s kind of how I started to look around. Like, are there any, like, could I have done something else? Did you pump his stomach? Yes. So can I just pause and say, I love how, even if they’re misguided, I love how devoted dog owners are to their dogs and cats. I mean, they just like, they’ll do anything. Yeah, I’ll do anything. Yeah, yeah, I’ll do anything. And, but. And so I think that’s when I realized there’s really no like, other option when it comes to.

There’s no telemedicine options that I saw. And it goes back to that. A lot of times it has to do with the laws. But look, I’m the guy who. I figured when him started, it was actually a similar situation. Back five years ago, telemedicine wasn’t legal on the human side either. Like, we forget that because it’s now so commonplace. But it was also the same thing. And I helped change those laws back then. I think that’s kind of why some of these groups are scared of me, is because this guy comes from a place where, like, he has nothing to lose.

He’s only doing. I mean, also, I think it’s because I’m doing the right thing. I think they don’t like that. And I’ve done it before. So I think that kind of gives me more confidence that I can do it again. And I don’t think that’s because before this. So before Dutch came On the scene. What the shelter groups, for example, that wanted telemedicine, what they were doing is talking to the state veterinary boards. Because that’s a simpler way that this could all change. If the veterinary board at the state, they could just say, if you want to do telemedicine, do telemedicine.

If it’s medically appropriate, it could be as simple as that. And so for over 10 years they were having these conversations. And so that’s when I got here and I’m like, this is doing nothing, so we gotta go the legislative route. It’s so revealing. However, I mean, again, I think they’re probably good people with good motives up and down the line. There always are in these systems, but the system itself is so distorted that they don’t put the welfare of animals as the top goal. Like that always has to be the point. Right. You know, if you’re a veterinary board, the health of animals, that’s why you exist.

Totally. Right, totally. But it doesn’t seem like they’re thinking that way. Well, again, what they’ll say is we are thinking of the pets. We think millions of dogs will die with telemedicine. How will that happen? Well, let me tell you of some of these examples I’ve seen. They’ll say, like, I’ll say the example I used, anxiety. Like, I’ll say, isn’t that great for telemedicine? The dog is in the comfort of their home and you can cheat. They’ll say, well, what if the dog ate a nail? You know, if the dog ate a nail. I’ve been in hearings where this example has happened.

Yeah, well, if the dog ate a nail, look, maybe he’s barking because he a nail and he’s in pain because he ate a nail. And so that’s why we shouldn’t have. It’s like, are there nails on your house? Like why, why are we going to use this crazy made up example to deny millions of dogs from having this opportunity to use telemedicine? Sure. And if your dog ate a nail, there’s still no good reason why you shouldn’t start with telemedicine. Exactly. Yeah. Have that initial call. Yeah. The vet will walk you through and then you’ll know, do I go to ER or not exactly.

It’s not. It doesn’t have to be in either or. Right. We had a family dog who ate a pin recently, a needle, you know, a sewing needle. And you know, obviously that’s a brick and mortar situation. Yes. The dog passed it without any problems. Which is kind of the. Wow. The canine digestive track is a wonder. Wow. All kinds of things. Mops, pine cones, sewing needles emerge from it. But that it still would have been worth calling initially. Like, why not? Totally. Why not? It takes before Dutch. There’s a poison hotline that’s like $75 just for that first call.

Yes. And you don’t even know who you’re gonna get. And that’s what people do, because, again, if that’s what you need to do, that’s what you’ll do. But there’s definitely ways to talk to a human being veterinarian very quickly. Even that. For much less, and definitely much less than having to spend a thousand dollars in er. I had a case where my dog. I thought he was having a seizure, and I really. I mean, I really freaked out. And I got on Dutch and. And the vet says he’s doing reverse sneezing. Reverse. Reverse sneezing. I never heard of that in my life.

And she showed me videos of reverse sneezing, and it looked exactly like what he was going through. And like I said, I was literally about to grab him, drive to er, and she totally calmed me down and. And made me realize it was totally right. That’s. Oh, what a great example. We just had a dog. We’ve had a dog eat marijuana in the park. We had a dog eat hallucinogenic mushrooms in the woods. Totally. The dog has been tripping ever since those four years ago. The dog is still seeing trails. Wonderful dog. Woke up with a dog this morning.

But in both cases, there really was no treatment at all. And in both cases, those dogs were bundled up and taken to the vet, which did not. I love the vet. I’m not against the vet, to be clear. But it didn’t help at all because it’s just. That’s right. Remedy. Right. There’s a time and a place for everything. Right. And I think telemedicine is just a part of the overall experience. I don’t think anyone’s gonna say it needs to replace the. And. And it won’t happen because it hasn’t happened in human care. But I think it’s another option for people to get a peace of mind and to have an option that’s way more affordable.

And we are seeing so many dogs, like I said, being given up or people who are saying, I don’t think I can have a dog in my life. Yes, that sucks. Well, that’s a tragedy. Especially people with children need to have dogs. I think totally. It’s been. Yeah. For us, my kids are. Little Eddie, the corgi, they love him so much, and it’s. It’s the best. Can I also say it’s really good for your immune system to be around dogs? Yeah. I think I’ve seen studies that. Really? Yeah. When our first child, who’s 31, came home from the hospital after being born, both of our dogs, our spaniel jumped up and licked the dog, licked the child in the mouth.

Child’s never been sick. It’s just a fact. Yeah, I think it definitely. I feel like I’ve seen stuff that shows. Really? Yeah. That you get that immunity. I’m pretty sure we’ve always. Since I was born, we’ve always. My family’s always been committed to that. Like, you’ve got to have a lot of dogs around and you stay healthy, and everyone’s been really healthy. I think that matters. So, yeah, I feel a little weird interviewing you because you’ve advertised on our show and. And all that, but I just. I just felt it so strongly. I feel like this is such a good thing, and I think there are a lot of viewers of this who would agree.

And so I just. It was sincere. I really thank you. Well, I think when you first called me, it was, hey, I like dogs. This makes sense. Yeah. And I think I already. I was like, tucker’s gotta know this conspiracy that’s happening because it’s such baloney and it’s so unfair, and so few people kind of, like I said, know how monopolistic it is, you know, And I thought that your listeners and you could help us, because I think we’re the Goliath in this fight or the. Right. We’re the David in this fight. And it needs people to understand how crazy the situation is for both for veterinarians who, like I said, feel scared to do telemedicine, as well as for pet owners who can’t afford it.

And it all has to do with. With these trade associations who are keeping and using their monopoly power to keep the laws from changing. So I think that whole part. You had no idea what’s going on. I had literally no idea. And again, for us at this age, you know, the cost is not the main barrier. For us, the barrier is the dog. It’s just so much suffering for the dogs to go to the vet, and sometimes there’s no choice. And I get it. But if we can avoid that, we would just be so thankful to avoid it and your dogs.

So it’s Dutch.com. yep. D U T C H well, I’m sure I’ll be attacked for insider dealing, but it’s not. I think you advertise with us no matter what, but I just wanted you to be able to say all of that at length, so I’m grateful that you did. Thank you. Yes. Joe Spector. Thank you. Thank you.
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