Summary
➡ The text discusses the history and impact of tax rates in the U.S., arguing that high tax rates like 90% and 70% were rarely paid by anyone and didn’t affect the percentage of taxes paid by GDP. It also argues that corporations pass on tax increases to consumers through higher prices. The text also mentions that despite tax cuts, government revenue increased due to economic growth. However, it also points out that tax cuts didn’t eliminate the deficit and increased the national debt. The text concludes by questioning the fairness of corporations paying less tax than individuals and the impact of national debt.
➡ The speaker argues that both government and corporate debt can be harmful to the economy if not managed properly. They criticize both Democrats and Republicans for contributing to the national debt, and express concern about the influence of corporate interests on government and media. They also discuss the high cost of healthcare in the U.S., attributing it to the influence of pharmaceutical companies, and advocate for universal healthcare as a more cost-effective and humane solution.
➡ The text discusses the issues with the current healthcare system, arguing that it prioritizes profits over patient health. It suggests that the government-run parts of healthcare are popular and effective, but criticizes the influence of corporations on the system. The text also debates the role of government and corporations, suggesting that corporations have too much power. Lastly, it discusses the high costs of healthcare and the issue of rationing services.
➡ The text discusses the issue of high profits made by drug companies, arguing that these profits are not a result of free market dynamics, but rather due to these companies manipulating the government to set rules in their favor. The author suggests that this is not capitalism, but corporatism, which is harmful to the economy. The text also touches on the topic of healthcare, arguing that while some people can switch insurance companies, many are tied to the insurance provided by their employers. The author calls for a more equitable system.
➡ The text discusses the flaws in the current health insurance system, where people are often denied coverage and left with no options. It suggests that a government-provided system would be better, as people could appeal to their representatives for coverage. The text also talks about the importance of community and pooling resources, especially in emergencies. It argues against the idea of voluntary taxation, stating that it’s not how a community works and that everyone should contribute to public services like education and health insurance.
➡ The discussion revolves around the issues of healthcare, government intervention, and abortion. The speaker argues that despite its flaws, government intervention, like in the case of Obamacare, can be beneficial, especially for those with pre-existing conditions. They also discuss the concept of dependence in relation to abortion, arguing that a fetus is not an independent life until it can survive outside the womb. The speaker acknowledges that these are complex issues with no easy solutions.
➡ The text is a conversation about the controversial topic of abortion. One person argues that every human was conceived, and wishes for more honesty from liberals about this fact. The other person counters that forcing a woman to carry a child and care for it takes away her freedom, comparing it to the uproar over vaccine mandates. They agree to disagree on when a fetus becomes a human, and end the conversation on a positive note, appreciating the civil discussion.
Transcript
We’re not going to do too many interruptions today. Just one at about the halfway mark. So just be patient. The sponsors keep the show free. They want to talk to you. So I deeply appreciate it. Hey Bongino. Listeners get access to Beam Cybersale before anything else. Enjoy up to 50%@shopbeam.com Bongino use code BONGINO don’t miss Beam’s biggest sale. We got that. We’re going to discuss everything today, so stay tuned. It’s going to be a good debate. I’m going to try to minimize it talking over each other so we can actually get to some real stuff. Have you guys heard about this new superfood? I just got my new delivery of it.
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The tech will figure it out. I’ve got some other material planned, too. I want to welcome from the Young Turks, an extremely successful podcast. I believe they’ve had billion or so views on YouTube. And the guy who runs it is Cenk Uygur. Cenk, thanks a lot. We appreciate you joining us today. Thanks. No problem, Dan. Thanks for having me. And yeah, the network has 29 billion views overall. Wow, that’s pretty impressive. So you got quite an audience. I saw you put out. The genesis of this, folks, is Cenk put out a tweet, said, listen, I want a debate, let’s do it.
And I responded, I was at North Carolina and I said, ah, he’s probably not going to. And he did. Got back to us right away and said, let’s do it. So we’re here. So, Cenk, I told you I’d say everything up front and no tricks or anything like that. I want to start about, you know, the tax debate. This is obviously a big difference between liberals, probably the Young Turks audience and mine. The Dan Bongino show. You know, I hear liberals make the argument for higher taxes on successful folks. They rarely make an argument for higher taxes on the middle class, although it winds up, in my opinion, being there.
I’d like you to make the case, you know, why should successful people pay higher taxes and why do liberals constantly say they don’t pay their fair share? What is that actually based on? Yeah, so it’s a great question, a lot of answers to it. So first off, look, let me just express the frustration that a lot on the right and the left have about where our taxes go. I wish our, the government spent our taxes better and then we could have a more fruitful conversation about where the level of taxation should be. But the, for example, the Defense Department can’t pass an audit.
Half, half the money. They’re like, we don’t know where it is. Well, half the money in the defense budget is like $400 billion subsidies to oil companies, subsidies to all of their, the friends of the donors of both Democrats and Republicans. Now, in terms of where taxes should be, well, there’s some historical record on what’s worked the best. I know it’s going to shock you and I’m not in favor of this, but. And it’s the highest marginal tax rate. So things like above people making above 10 million a year. When America built the greatest middle class the world has ever seen in those four, in that 40 year stretch between 1938 and 1978, taxes for the highest marginal tax rate was as high as 91%.
And when it was most successful it was around 70%. So now the reality is to us that sounds way too high, right? It sounds way too high to me. And remember, it’s for every dollar above that marker of whatever it is at 10 million, et cetera. Right. And it’s gradually goes up. The thing I’m most concerned about is corporate taxes because corporations get everything. And both the Democratic and the Republican politicians shovel everything to their corporate donors, including giant corporate tax cuts. And that’s exactly one of the things I’m, I hated about the Trump administration. A lot of talk about being a populist.
I’m a populist. You want to be a populist, you want to take on the swamp. I love it. But he didn’t do that. Instead he did a giant corporate tax cut, brought their taxes from 35% down to 21%. It cost us $2 trillion. And what folks have to understand is that money’s got to come from somewhere, that it’s not Magic. So when they take $2 trillion and give it back to corporations, that means they’re going to take it from us. They’re either going to cut our Social Security or Medicare, they’re going to raise our taxes. They also raise fees.
They taste raise regressive taxes like sales tax, gas tax, et cetera. That goes more to the average guy, more of the poor and the middle class. So what it means to pay their fair share is, hey, listen, once you get to a certain number, we remember the highest rate, it doesn’t apply to all your money. So let’s say you’re at $1 million. And can you pay 40%, 50% for every dollar above a million? Of course you can. Of course you can. And so, look, I know good, progressive, wealthy folks, and one of them I sat down to breakfast with one day, and he said, I don’t get it.
Why is my taxes not 70%? I mean, we. We can’t spend this kind of money. We just. It’s impossible to spend. And we already do investments. Every good businessman does investments, no matter where taxes are. Right. So, yeah, that. That’s. That’s okay. But we can talk more about it. Go. All right, well, I. I think I. I want to let you finish your thought in full. I want to respond, and I’ll give you the chance to respond to the response, and then we can jump on to another topic. So let me address each. I was taking notes as you spoke.
I’m going to try to again minimize any interruptions. You’re kind enough to join us. One of the first points you made was that, you know, a very prosperous time in American history, the 50s, was when the top marginal tax rate, which you accurately stated, was 90%. That point is correct. But what you left out there is that that 90% tax rate wasn’t actually paid by anyone. If you look at the data, it was actually paid by far less than 10,000 residents. So you’re citing a tax rate no one actually paid. It’s like talking about a unicorn.
It may be beautiful, but it’s only beautiful on paper. It doesn’t exist. So you leave that out. And then when you look at Hauser’s Law, named after a person named Hauser, when you look at the percentage of taxes paid by gdp, it’s been steady over time, regardless if the marginal tax rate was 90 or 70. So on your first point about the 90%, you are accurate, but you’re citing a rate no one actually paid. Uh, secondly, you cited the 70% tax rate. How did we get there. The 90% tax rate, do you know who cut it? Um, it was jfk.
He was the one who cut the tax rate, citing marginal tax rates were too high and revenue was too low. That’s jfk. You could look that up. It’s not me. He was the one who cut it to 70%. Reagan then cut it from 70 to 28% progressively. Now, I want to make a point. I’m going to address a couple other things, but I want to go back to that in a second. Another thing you addressed is corporate taxes. And if you could address this, I’d appreciate it a cenk. Corporate taxes are not paid by corporations. Corporations get their money from people.
They have to. It’s like stating that the government, you know, raising taxes gets its money from like unicorns or Martians. Corporations get their money from people. So if you raise a tax on a corporation, they have to raise their prices in order to turn a profit and stay in business. And one last thing I’d like you to address as well is you keep citing these high marginal tax rates of 90% and 70%. But when Reagan cut the rate and I, we have actually have this, if you guys want to pull it up. When Ronald Reagan cut the top tax rate, the top tax rate from 70 to 28% revenue to the United States government, which I don’t want.
Cenk, I want to be clear. You can argue that the government does good things with our money. I’m not even making that argument. I’m simply stating, even if your argument is accurate, that we, the government needs more money, therefore we shouldn’t cut taxes. You actually should like Ronald Reagan, because if you look at this chart here, you’re going to see government revenue one from 500 billion to 900 billion. After Reagan cut the tax rate to 28% because the economy grew and the government took in more money, even at a lower rate. So I don’t understand, like why you’re arguing against tax cuts when even after Bush cut taxes, revenue went up as well.
George W. Bush tax cuts, revenue went up by 700 billion. So address that and then, and we can move on. Yeah, so let me address all the things that you brought up. So first of all, the reason that only 10,000 people paid the 91% tax rate is because, as I said, it applied at really high levels. So a lot of times Republicans talk about it as if it’s going to apply to you guys. It doesn’t apply to you because the highest marginal tax rate is at a monster number now, don’t quote me on it, but that’s why I mentioned the 10 million.
Like, if it was in today’s money, it was a giant number. So. But in that bracket, that is what we’re talking about. America helped you get there. All of us helped you get there. The roads, the bridges, the schools, the cops, the military, everyone helped you to get there. And if you’re already at over a billion dollars, et cetera, I’m not saying take all your money. I don’t believe in that. Right. So I’m not your standard progressive in that sense. But should you pay higher than what you pay today? Absolutely. And it showed that economically it totally works.
You’re right. JFK cut it to about 70%. I. Look, I keep telling you, I think 94% is a giant number. I’m not in favor of that number. And I’m actually stunned at how well it worked, to be honest. And at 70%, that still sounds way too high to me. Again, it’s for the highest tax rate. And again, the economy roared in that time at 70%. We were building the greatest middle class the world has ever seen. Right, because it doesn’t apply to the average guy. It applies to the very, very richest people. Okay, so in terms of the Reagan numbers that you stated there, look, that’s a source of an eternal debate.
The American population grows, other parts of the economy grow. So revenue is not just linked to tax cuts. In fact, Donald Trump said when he came in that, that he was going to get rid of the entire $20 trillion deficit magically by cutting taxes. And he cut corporate taxes, mainly corporate taxes. And he didn’t get rid of the deficit. In fact, he added $8.4 trillion to the debt. There is no magic. When you give it to the rich, they take it and it’s gone. And then we’re going to have to pay. It’s just the most empirical fact you could have.
8.4 trillion. We now owe. We now owe because Trump gave trillions to corporations and it didn’t. And the revenue definitely did not come back. Now, in last thing is, you talked about corporations or people, too. No, they’re not. So I run a company, okay? So I started the Young Turks. 75 people work there. We’ve got, you know, half a dozen shows, run dozens of platforms. A lot of people it takes to run that operation. Okay? I’m super proud of being an entrepreneur. I love the opportunities America gave me, okay? And I’m proud that I employ those people and I take care of them.
Right? But taxes are on your profits, brother. They don’t involve whether you can make it or not. And especially in digital media, it’s a tough, tough business. So we’re always trying to make it to get to the place where we have profits so that everybody’s paid, everybody’s taken care of, and we can keep going. Right? So. But if I’m making, you know, tremendous profit, whatever it might be, ten million, hundred million, or whatever it is, and then they come and take a portion of that for the business that we created yet. That makes sense. Corporations have to chip in, too.
So when I didn’t run a company, I had to pay a lot of taxes. And so why does the average guy have to pay a lot of taxes, but companies can’t take any money out of their profits to help this country get on its feet? Look, Dan, three quarters of Americans think that corporations pay too little taxes. So the populist position is not give corporations a bigger break. They already have all the breaks in the world. And that’s part of why I’m against Trump. His major piece of legislation was a $2 trillion giveaway to them, and he says now he’s going to take corporate taxes from 21% to 15%.
Jesus. How low do you want him to be? It’s absurd. Yeah, okay. I was going to address the national debt next, but you kind of segued nicely to it. Anyway, I just want to address. On the corporate tax front, you’re. Again, you’re accurate. They do pay. You don’t pay taxes on losses. You’re correct. However, I believe. And again, I’m not. You were nice enough to come here. I’m not trying to insult your brother at all. I know you run a business, very successful. I follow the podcast space. But I know you have to understand that there’s a thing called a hurdle rate.
Just because you make a profit in a business doesn’t mean you’re going to stay in that line of business if the government’s taking more money from you. That’s not how it works. You know, if you could, for instance, let’s say, like, I’m an investor in Rumble and other tech platforms, I’m not going to, you know, say, I didn’t ideologically commit myself to this, and I was just. This is just a job for me. It’s not. But say it was. I’m not going to sit here and continue to do podcasting four hours a day. The government’s going to take a lot of my proceeds if I can get some kind of tax Carve out in a different business and defeat a hurdle rate, a rate of return.
I need. It’s just a fundamental misunderstanding of how business works and on the debt, which I was going to get to next. Yet, yes, you are correct. Republicans and Democrats from Reagan on have added to the national debt. But every time I debate a liberal, I never can get an answer on this. You know what is. Is national debt a good or a bad thing? Because Cenk, it seems like liberals make the argument that debt’s only bad when Donald Trump and Republicans do it. But Kamala Harris, who’s running on a massive government expansion, that the debt is good.
I agree with you. Debt is a bad thing when accumulated by government enterprises. I 100% agree with you. I don’t care who does it, period. You don’t need to make the argument. Trump and Bush did it. You win, you win, it’s over. I’m simply telling you. Can you acknowledge, as a liberal then that you’re suggesting government debt is not healthy and a net positive for the economy? So why are we doing it? The argument, you can’t have it both ways. Yeah, so I definitely acknowledge that. So, look, we’re not a normal show on the left, or we’re definitely not Democrats.
We drive the Democrats crazy. So, for example, on the left they have this thing called modern monetary theory. Good people, smart folks, but nonsense. I don’t believe it at all. And what it says is debts and deficits don’t matter at all. Just print as much money as you want. By the way, the other person who agrees with that is Dick Cheney. So on the right, and unfortunately, Reagan, Trump, etcetera, They’re like, they pile on the debt, pile on the debt and they say it doesn’t matter. That’s nonsense. Of course it matters. That does. By the way, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have any debt.
You need to balance it out. Because at different times, let’s say, for example, let’s say you have war, right? World War II, we took on a lot of debt to be able to win that war. But then we paid it off, right? So. And you don’t have to pay all of it off, but if you accumulate too much debt, then you’re starting to tip the balance of the economy. And it’s a really dangerous game to play. And that’s what Japan did. And it slowed them down so much, slowed down their economy. Because once you get over 100% of GDP, you’re paying such a high interest rate, and then God help you if you get, you risk your creditworthiness.
And that’s another thing I’m really worried about with Trump. He keeps saying, oh, it’s good business not to pay your debts. No, that’s terrible business. Terrible business. And if America doesn’t pay its debts, then the dollar is going to crash, interest rates are going to go sky high, inflation is going to go sky high. And right now we’re at past 100% GDP on our debt. So did the Democrats do a good job on debt? Bill Clinton did, Obama did a little bit. So they did bring down the deficits, no question about it. And Clinton got to a surplus.
But overall, no. Democrats and Republicans have been having the same problems. So Biden added 4.8 trillion to the debt. Now again, Trump added 8.4 way more. But either way, don’t do the corporate tax cuts. Be responsible. Audit the Fed, audit the Defense Department. So they don’t ever do any of this. They just waste all of our money, hand it over to all their donors. Right now the oil companies get $30 billion in subsidies. Why they’re the most profitable companies in the world. Are we doing capitalism or are we not doing capitalism? This ain’t capitalism. This is what I call corporatism, where corporate interests capture the government and capture mainstream media and then they put out nothing but a pro corporate agenda.
Oh, yeah, lower our taxes, let us take all the money. We’ll pilot debt onto you. Don’t worry about it. No, that debt’s going to explode on us. And I hate it whether a Democrat or Republican does it. And then your point about the corporate taxes and profits. Look, I went to Wharton Business School and unlike Trump, I earned my way and I didn’t have any family name or anything like that. And what you do is you manage risk, right? So if you’re going to make some profit, but it’s relatively risky, well, then you might not do that venture.
Right? So it’s a matter of seeing risk and reward. So I understand that taxes could affect that equation, but then it’s around the edges. As Warren Buffett said, no investor is going to see a good investment opportunity and go, oh, because I have to pay taxes, I’m not going to make that money. No, you make the money and you worry about the taxes later. So I’m pretty sure Warren Buffett knows better than you and I. All right, well, I think we just fundamentally disagree. I’m glad you acknowledged the point that the hurdle rate does matter, but I think we just fundamentally disagree where the money should be.
And you and I could argue this way. We’ll move to a different topic. I just don’t think the government has any incentive to spend your money better than you will based on Milton Friedman’s cost versus Quality. It’s not their money and they’re not even spending it on themselves. There’s just no incentive. I think that’s an ideological conflict of visions. I don’t want to get stuck on it, but I do want to address one quick thing. Cenk. You know there are going to be a lot of Liberals. We got 143,000 only 20 minutes in watching live. I appreciate all your feedback in the chat.
I just want to say categorically, there was never a Clinton surplus. I actually applaud Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich for doing an amazing job. Your point isn’t wrong that they did, but there was never a surplus. It is easy to prove. Just go to the United States treasury and look at the national debt. Every year Bill Clinton was in office, it went up. If he was running a surplus, it would have went down. That is, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a talking point, but it’s not true. He did a great job. I’m not, I’m not taking away from you.
Him and Newt Gingrich didn’t effectively control government as a percentage of gdp. They did. You are correct. But there was never a surplus. And anyone can look that up. He got close, but they just took it out of the Social Security fund. It was an accounting myth. That’s what it was. But it doesn’t take away from your point. And I don’t want to pick nits over that. It’s kind of silly, but that just said a lot. Let’s move on to the healthcare topic. Obviously, you being from the Young Turks of a show with a liberal bent, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but you’re probably interested in an expanded role for government and health care.
I don’t personally see how that’s effective given that Medicaid and Medicare are bankrupting the United States government, entitlement programs are large and causing national debt. And I don’t see how a government bureaucrat somehow has an inner knowledge of your healthcare condition who can make better health care choices than you could with your own money. Why am I paying a bureaucrat in the government? Can you make the larger ideological argument why I’m paying the government to make healthcare decisions I can personally make on my own? Yeah, definitely. So, first of all, every issue that we discuss is going to get back to money in politics, because we’re drowning in money in politics and they’re buying off all of our politicians.
So for example, why are health care costs so high? Well, one, the top reason is drug companies. And what do drug companies do? They donate, for example, four times what AIPAC does. Everybody’s concerned about AIPAC buying off our politicians for Israel. And that’s true. They, they had gave like over $100 million in this campaign cycle. And the politicians serve their donors. But the drug industry is a way bigger lobby than aipac. It spent at least four times more this time and spends way more. So in America, we can’t negotiate drug prices. The government can’t, when it has enormous leverage, every other country in the world can.
That is not the free market. That’s the exact opposite of a free market where you, where the price is not set by the market. The drug companies say, this is our price and the American people have no choice. There are hostages and they have to pay it because we bought off all your corrupt politicians on the Democratic side and the entire Republican side. 20 Republican senators just the other day saying, no, we shouldn’t negotiate drug prices. They should be sky high. So I hate those guys. I hate what they’re doing to us, is killing people. Now when you get to universal healthcare, every developed nation on earth has it except us.
Almost every nation on earth has it except us. 68,000Americans die every single year because they don’t have private health insurance. That number is zero. In all other developed nations, we let Americans die because the health insurance companies didn’t get to make a profit off of them. That system is insane. Now if you go to universal healthcare, well, the problem is, you’re saying is, oh my God, all the costs. But that’s a myth. So this is a stone cold fact. Anybody can look it up. The developed nations that do universal healthcare, on average, they pay half of what we pay.
They don’t pay more, they pay way less. And what is their results? Oh, big long lines. No, I try to book appointments now with my doctor. They’re like, yeah, we’ll give you one six months from now. We’re waiting in lines because of this crazy privatized system that doesn’t care about your health. All it does is it cares about the profits of the people that are in these industries. So in the rest of the world, life expectancy is. In the developed world with universal healthcare, life expectancy is higher than it is here. Almost all the metrics in terms of health are higher.
And they pay Half of what we pay. And you know where the most of the money goes. Ironically, it goes to bureaucrats, but not government bureaucrats. Private health insurance and drug company bureaucrats who go, hey, I’m going to give you the same service you could have gotten from the government much, much, much cheaper because it’s just insurance. Remember, it’s not your doctor. Your doctor’s still private. You still get to have your doctor. The people who prevent you from having any doctor you want are HMOs. They say you’re not allowed to. You could only pick this doctor or if they’re in this network.
Right. It’s those bureaucrats that are killing us and they’re killing us for their profit. So we’ve got to wake up to the fact that we live under corporate rule. And corporate media tells you how great this system is. They’re lying to you. It’s not great. It’s one of the worst systems in the world. That’s why we would pay twice as much as everyone else. I want to reduce costs and get better results. Well, a couple things I want to address there. It’s interesting how you seem to be, especially by your last sentence and statement there, willing to trade.
You know, what you claim is rule your word. You know, rule by corporations that I can escape from to rule by government I can’t. That has a monopoly on force. That I don’t know about you, but that seems like an odd chain. If you’re uncomfortable with being quote, ruled by corporations who don’t have the barrel of a gun and a monopoly on force, why you would trade that for government seems like a bizarre change if you love liberty and freedom. Second, you know, you keep saying it’s a privatized system, government now pays. In the United States, government finances about 40 to 50% of the healthcare system.
Well, let’s not with a straight face say this is a private system. It’s at best, fairly stated, a hybrid that’s dominated by government payments. That, that’s, that’s not in doubt. Ever since Obamacare, that number’s probably closer, higher, closer to 50% of Medicare payments. Secondly, claiming that there’s the rationing or. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, you didn’t say it isn’t a problem. But if you’re insinuating that. Pull up that article, guys. The one I showed you about the rationing. Rationing in government run systems is real Cenk. There’s only two ways to allocate a product.
Healthcare, Chia Pets. It doesn’t matter. You can price the product or you can ration it. There is no third way. You’ll win a Nobel Prize in economics if you could tell me a third way to sell or make a product available. So if we’re not going to price it, where someone can go and buy Lasik and when, you know, Lasik generally isn’t covered by insurance, that’s why it’s cheap. Plastic surgery is affordable because a lot of it isn’t covered by government. I mean, look, here’s the Health Secretary in the UK admitting that NHS rationing is government policy.
I mean, it’s not me saying it. Rationing is real. So I’m not. I’m not saying to you that everything you said there is bullshit. Yes, there is a lot of money spent on lobbying by drug companies and I’m certainly not here to lobby for Big Pharma. But again, acting like they don’t spend a lot of money on R and D and acting like their profits are exorbitant relative to other industries doesn’t marry up with the facts. But second, I just like you to address the rationing thing. That’s very real. And the UK is going bankrupt right now and the NHS is chronically running out of money.
So I don’t get where you’re making an economic efficiency argument, comparing it to us, where the government here is still Medicaid and Medicare. The Medicaid trust fund, a Medicare trust fund is going to go bankrupt, obviously, 2035 or 2032. I mean, we’re having real significant issues with this. You kind of glossed over. Yeah. So let’s break it down one by one. So you say corporations don’t have the power of the, you know, the gun and government does. Well, first of all, that’s part of the point of the government is that we collectively get together and go, hey, we’re going to have cops, we’re going to have a military, we’re going to protect ourselves.
Right. So you can’t take the. I mean, I don’t. I know you don’t want to defund the police. Right. So that. My point is that the government is a balance between individuality and protecting the community. And we need to get that right balance. But when you say corporations don’t have that power, that’s actually not true because they just bought our entire government. The entire government’s corrupt and serves corporate donors, so now they have the power of the gun and the power of the dollar. Okay? So these get. Look, guys, politicians are just waiters and waitresses. They’re servants for the donors, so don’t respect any of them.
Mainstream media tells you, oh my God, they’re such noble, unbelievable people. And they, and they’re here to help you. They’re not here to help you, they’re here to rob you. They’re servants of the donor class. So the corporations that control them now have nearly more power than I have ever seen in America. And if you don’t like big government, wait till you get a load of big business and big government combined. And that’s what we have today. So number two, now when you get into specifically in the health insurance industry, so you say, well, the government already runs parts of it.
That’s right. And every part of that the government runs is actually very popular. Now this is a right wing show, so a lot of your audience is gonna be like, oh, no way, the government’s not popular. Really? Well, Obamacare now is way above 50% in popularity. And that’s why the Republicans stopped trying to kill it. In fact, Donald Trump was pretending that he was in favor of it. The JD Vance in the Tim Walz debate was like, oh, we saved Obamacare. No, you didn’t. You tried to kill Obamacare. And the reason they’re saying that is because it is now popular.
Medicaid, Popular. Very popular. Medicare, the second most popular program in America, set polls at 77%. You cut that at your peril. Because it is a rare government program that works spectacularly. People are very happy with it. Why? Because people are waiting to see to get to 65 so they can get Medicare and be freed from the oppression of private health insurance. You can’t have this, you can’t have that. Which leads to rationing. Are you saying we’re not doing rationing now? All my private health insurance does is rationing. You can’t do that. You can’t do this. And that’s an elective surgery.
And then half the time it’s not even elective. They’re trying to save money. Look, think about how private health insurance makes money. Their revenue is how much you pay them. So they want to make sure that it’s as high as possible. And their costs are the health care that they’re giving you. So they want to make sure their costs are as low as possible so they can make the most profit. So how do you keep your costs low? You provide as little health care as possible. The entire incentive of the system is to make sure you don’t get better, that they make a profit off of you being sick and not paying for it.
That is crazy. That’s why it costs twice as much as all the other countries that have universal health care. So, and then you talked about R and D. Are you kidding me? You know the US government pays for most of the research and development for the drug companies. Now normally, look again. I run a business. You’re invested into this. Into rumble you said. So you understand it. So listen, when someone invests into a business, they get equity, okay? And. But when the American taxpayer invests into research and development for drug companies, we don’t get any equity in the drug companies.
And then the drug companies turn around and say you’re not even allowed to negotiate drug prices. Corporatists rule. You have. And now I have the government backing me up. So you don’t have any choice at all. You don’t even have a public option. Biden said he’d do a public option. He didn’t even propose one. The Republicans hate a public option because that would take beloved profits away from their beloved drug companies and health insurance companies. So if we’re going to help them with research and development, then they need to give us equity in those companies. Now you said their profits are not exorbitant.
No, brother, the drug company profits are unbelievable. They are record breaking. They’re killing us with their profits. No, that’s not what I said. Though they’re a little bit different. That’s not what I said. Drugs are very profitable, but the drug companies are out of control profitable because they killed off the free markets. It’s. That’s not what I said. I didn’t say. I never use the word exorbitant at all. I said when you look at drug company profits relative to other industries, they are relatively in line. And I’m not sure, you know, the American people really care what, what any liberal thinks about what an acceptable level of profit is.
I mean, that’s just an opinion. No, I mean, I guess liberals do, but I guess I’m making a point. No, Dan, I’m not really interested. I think me and my audience. Maybe yours is, but I’m not really interested in what anyone else thinks about an acceptable level of profit. Unless you’re an investor somehow or you’re somehow got skin in the game. Like why, why would I care what a group of people think about an acceptable level of profit in my business? Like are you working in my business? So why would, why would it matter to me? So Dan, first, it’s not my audience or.
Your audience is 76% of Americans say that corporations are Making too much money. And you could say, hey, what is it their business? In fact, I literally wrote that in my book, justice is Coming. I said one poll had nearly three quarters of the country saying that corporations have too much power and make too much money. And there was one result where I was like, I’m not sure I even agree with this. Right? But. But the American people’s gut intuition that they’re making, quote, unquote, too much profit is not because they’re envious. It’s not because what difference does it make how much they make? Look, you come up with a good company, I’m an entrepreneur.
You come up with a good company, small business, big business, I don’t care. And you’re making good profit. God bless your heart. That’s the whole point of America, land of opportunity. But the reason why, in our gut, we think they’re making, quote, unquote, too much profit is because they. We know they captured the government. So if you set. If you’re in a free market and people can pay whatever they want for drugs, then you make money, no problem. But if you’re not in a free market and you say, I can set my prices anywhere I want and you’re not allowed to negotiate, well, then you’re making, quote, unquote, too much profit because you rigged the rules.
You got the government to rig the rules on your behalf. Then the government pays for your research and development, doesn’t take anything back from it, make you guys set the prices. Dan, this isn’t capitalism. This is corporatism. Corporatism is killing capitalism. Capitalism is free markets. Corporatism is no crony capitalism. We get everything. We buy off the politicians and we make infinite profit because we captured the government. I got to hold that thought. I got to take a quick break, folks. We’ll be right back with Cenk Uygur from Young Turks. But I want to address that because you’re citing polls a lot and what the American people think, but then when you see what they do, you get a different result.
I’m not really interested so much in what people think. I’m interested in what they do. It matters. But I’ll let you address that in a second. Hey. With five generations of family owned experience, Omaha Steaks consistently delivers unrivaled quality and taste. Hand selected by master butchers from the finest grain finished beef, extra age, flash frozen at peak flavor and delivered right to you. And now, during the semiannual sale, you can taste the difference and get 50% off sitewide@omahastakes.com minimum purchase may apply. Go to omahastakes.com for details. Listeners get an extra $30 off with code Bongino. That’s a big discount.
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Join me in better health with 15% off and free shipping. Visit brickhousenutrition.com Dan and use promo code Dan. That’s promo code dan@brickhouse nutrition.com Dan brickhouse nutrition.com Dan back with Cenk Ugar from the Young Turks. Cenk, a couple things again. I think you do a good job debating your position. I’ll give you credit but I find a little lacking. I mean as an insult and tell me if I’m wrong. Is that the Bigger issues I’m trying to get at you’re still not addressing like, you know, the government’s role in health care, Medicare’s own actuaries, okay, that they’re not partizan actors.
Their actuaries have said to the American people, despite, you know, close to $1 trillion a year spent on government funded healthcare at the federal level alone, that they’re going broke in 10 years. They don’t have the money. So, you know, it’s like it’s easy to attack the private sector. It is. Because it’s not perfect. You’re right. You may have to wait for a doctor’s appointment. I do. But that’s not rationing. You can pick another doctor. Correct. If the government tells you at the end of well cenk, then I don’t know. You can’t. Oh, well then no, see, that’s not accurate either.
I mean, I had to have back surgery five years ago. My insurance company said no, no dice. You know what I did? I changed insurance companies and got the back surgery. I mean, you have a choice. It may not be a good one, but it’s like saying I don’t have a car. I don’t have transportation options. Yes, you do. You get on the train. But I don’t like the train. That’s not what you said. You said you have no transportation options. That’s not right. So I want you to address that. They are going bankrupt. Number one, please hit that.
And then second, you know, you cite polls a lot. The American people say they don’t like corporations making a lot of money. The American people say, you know, the rich don’t pay enough. So I’ve asked a thousand liberals this question. It’s probably not hyperbole from running for office. I have never got a satisfactory answer. Why don’t liberal corporations and why don’t liberals set an example for the American people and just voluntarily pay more? Why do they have to be forced to do it? If government’s such a benevolent force, and I know they’ll scoff, well, you have to pay more too.
Why? I believe charity is a good thing. I don’t need a liberal to give to charity for me, to me and my wife, give hundreds of thousands of dollars a year away to charities that do a good thing. If government is so great, why don’t liberals, the 30 million or 40 million or 50 million, get a group together and all double their taxes and lead by example. Nobody’s stopping them. Government’s a good thing. Pay for it. All right, so I’ll take that one by one, too. So, Dan, you’re lucky because you’re able to switch health insurance, but most people work for a company and their company provides the health insurance.
So I’ll give you an example. A friend of mine who ran for office nearly won as a progressive in Kansas because he runs like me, a populist progressive, not like the corporate Democrats, right? And. But then he got sick. He got stage four cancer. And it was. We were really worried about him. But. And he had insurance through his wife’s company, and it was an hmo. And they said, well, there is a doctor that can perform surgery on you and maybe save your life. But it’s. He’s in Denver, he’s out of network, so he’s like, well, what do you want me to do? And they’re like, we don’t care nothing.
I mean, he was going to die, his wife had to switch companies. I mean, but most people don’t have that luxury. So what are you going to do? You can’t afford chemo, you can’t afford surgery, and you’re stuck at a company. I mean, this whole system is crazy. And part of the. Of the reason why it also leads to corporate rule is then you’re attached to your company like an indentured servant. And God help you if they fire you or you need. They don’t cover the doctor that you need. This is not the right way to run health insurance.
No other country does this. And guys, don’t get me wrong, you can layer on private health insurance on top. Nobody’s stopping you from doing that if you say, hey, the government insurance is not enough. I want to buy extra insurance. God bless your heart. It’s still like, sometimes the right makes it seem like, oh, we’re taking your freedom away. Nobody’s taking your freedom away. The government is like, they provide cops, like they provide a fire department. They’re covering everyone. That’s their responsibility to protect your life. But if you want to get extra security, nobody’s stopping you from getting extra security.
In fact, Kim Kardashian, when there was fires here in California, hired private fire department, but we can’t have a private fire department, otherwise the whole place is going to burn down. Some things need to be public, including health insurance and cops, because those are the things that save your life. Okay? So now when you turn to Social Security and Medicare, people say, oh, my God, it’s going to go bankrupt. You know, Social Security could be solvent if all we did was this. Easiest fix in the world. All of us get money taken out of our taxes for Social Security and our employer matches.
Right, but it gets capped and that cap keeps moving. I think it’s around 170,000 or so. If, if you’re making above 170,000, you no longer contribute to Social Security. If you just lift that cap and have everyone, including past 170,000 contributing to Social Security, it’s solvent forever solves the problem. But the rich don’t want it. They don’t want to pay like an extra point six or whatever it is to keep. Social Security is the number one most popular program in America. So that’s what I mean by a fair share. I mean a tiny, tiny percentage from people making above 170 gets us covered with Social Security forever.
Medicare is a little bit tougher situation because of all the runaway health insurance costs. But part of the reason they have runaway health insurance costs is again because the drug companies charge so much, et cetera. So the right way to do that is to keep that super popular program but get government corruption under control so they stop, you know, serving the drug companies, serving the health insurance companies, et cetera. So, and then you talked about voluntary taxation. And this is a point I hear often. Right wing goes, well, okay, we don’t want to pay extra taxes.
We don’t want to give to the cops, the military. We don’t for the collective, you know, good or roads, bridges, libraries, schools. We don’t want to. So liberals, if you want to pay more, why don’t you carry the load? But that’s not how a community works. And what does that do? That says, okay, if you’re a good guy and you’re trying to look out for others, you give away all your money and have no power left. And if you’re a bad guy, you’re selfish and you’re greedy, you keep all your money and then you’ll have get to lord that over other people and have all the power.
Yeah, no deal. I’m not going to do that. And if you take that argument to its logical extreme, okay, for example, I don’t want to fund Israel for $26 billion to slaughter Palestinians. Okay, so Israeli supporters, why don’t you go pay for it? Okay, well, you know what? I didn’t want to go into the Iraq war. Young Turks is the longest running Internet show in history. We were around before the Iraq war and we’re one of the two national shows that said, don’t go in, it’s going to be a disaster. And it was a disaster. And they made us pay trillions of dollars for that dumb ass idea.
I didn’t want to pay it, but that’s not how taxes work. I don’t get to say, hey, I don’t want that war, I don’t want that government program. I don’t want your kids to get educated. I don’t want it. And by the way, that’s what the rich are doing now. They’re killing off public education because they all their kids are already in private school. So like, I don’t want to fund it. I don’t want to fund it. No, we’re a community, we work together. And especially in insurance, you have to pull your resources together for when you need an emergency help in an emergency.
I’m a little confused. I mean, it just sounds to me like you made the argument against taxes, not for. I’m not trying to be a dick. I just. You’re telling me the government makes you pay for a whole bunch of stuff you don’t want to pay for that you could pay for yourself. By the way, I totally disagree with the slaughtering Palestinians. We can talk about that, the Israel issue next, if you’d like to, but I’m not really, I’m not sure what argument you’re making. Can I explain? Wait, wait, hold on. I will, I will let you.
But I just want to say one more thing too, maybe address this. You know, this is, I do a lot of debating whether it was TV back then or here. You pulled this stunt, whether you know it or not. I’m not trying to be a smart ass, but you did this utopia fallacy thing again where you compared the current system of insurance. My friend struggling, it’s a horrible story. I’m really sad for him. I had cancer myself. I acknowledge to you fairly, the current system is filled with human beings who are flawed and we’re all sinners.
The current medical system, no matter how private or how government, is always going to have problems. The question isn’t, is the private system perfect? There’s this thing called the utopia fallacy. Liberals do a lot and they go, well, they’ll give you an example. They’ll say, this guy, man, he had cancer. It’s horrible. I had cancer. The insurance company fucked him over. It happens all the time. You’re correct. But then you’re pretending like there’s a utopia out there where this doesn’t happen. As if the government doesn’t fuck people over every single day and there’s no way you can escape if you’re on Medicare and the government tells you, for instance, when you look at the Alzheimer drugs that Medicare, they pulled this big scam trying to pull some experiment because it was getting too expensive.
Those seniors were in an uproar because there was no option. I’m acknowledging to you the private health care system is flawed. Your argument is correct. But what I’m saying is you’re not acknowledging the other avenue that yes, if the private health care system is one of its flaws is insurance companies don’t pay for everything and some people are going to get screwed. It’s interesting, you leave out that if the government doesn’t pay for it, you are absolutely screwed and you actually don’t have an option. There’s no second government to lobby to. Can we accept that premise that you’re not acknowledging the other half of this while I am? So let me break those down.
So first off, if you’re rich under both systems, you’re fine because you could lay around private health insurance and get any treatment you like. So we’re talking about now middle class and poor, okay? Actually the biggest problem is for the middle class because the poor are also covered under Medicare. So the middle class constantly gets squeezed and squeezed and squeezed. So now let’s look at the. There’s no utopias that. I agree with you on that. Let’s look at the two different options. One is a private health care system and the other is the government. So private health care system denies you coverage.
And all of you out there, you’ve been there, okay, you’re screwed. You have no options. You can’t go ask your representative in government. You can’t do anything because you’re stuck in your company. Your company provides this health care company. You don’t have the choice to get out of that health care company. Besides, what, you’re sick now, right? And so you’re totally, utterly stuck. If the government provides it, at least you then can go to your representative and go, why aren’t you guys covering cancer treatment? Right? And the American people rise up. And in fact, you saw it happen with your own eyes.
The health insurance companies got so greedy and so corrupted that they were denying coverage for people with pre existing conditions. Well, that’s all of us, right? And it became so oppressive that the government, which I think is owned by these corporate owners, then said, all right, we got to do a release valve, okay, so let’s, let’s let them do Obamacare. Basically the drug companies allowed that to happen. The health insurance guys fought it, but we won that fight and now we’re much better off. That’s why? Obamacare is popular. So with the government, it’s at least a democracy and you have a chance to have some sort of redress of your grievance with a private company, you are screwed.
They don’t. You’re glossing over my point though. I only got 10 minutes, so really, I try my best not to interrupt. I got 10 minutes left. I gotta go live on the radio after that. But you’re totally glossing over my point. You keep saying something that is tautologically inaccurate if you just look at it. You keep saying that you have no options in the free market healthcare. You do, you just don’t like them. You actually made the point. He has to. Wait, wait, hold on. You said you have to leave the job. Okay, that sucks. But when the government tells you no, which it tells people no all the time, Alzheimer’s, you’re saying your best response is call your representative and hope for the best.
No. Over long run we can pressure the government to do things. God, it’s hard, but we did it with pre existing conditions. Okay, but when. Dan, you keep talking about a hypothetical where you’re rich. Yeah, you can leave any. I did not mention you’re rich. But if you’re middle class, leaving your job is not tenable. Especially in the middle of cancer. And then you. I didn’t say it was. No, I know, but I didn’t say it was different company. I’m just telling you it’s an option, not a palatable one. Don’t. Okay, I’m not disagreeing with you though.
I don’t want to debate something. We both agree it fucking sucks, bro. We both agree. I’m just saying the government sucks worse because you can’t get away from them. Your point is? At least we can lobby government over time. Okay, I concede the point. You can get government to take other people’s money and pay for things. Can I move on though? Because I only got 10 minutes and I’m enjoying this point. Just real quick, right? Make it quick. Remember, you could. You could layer health insurance on top of what the government’s giving you. So you still have options.
But the thing that you mentioned about the individual. Shoot, I forgot the thing that you mentioned earlier. We’ll do it on your show. We’ll do it on your show. I promise I’ll do your show. You were nice enough to come on mine. I’m not going to screw you over. We’ll do it on your show. The Young turf. Oh, sorry, Dan, real quick. Yeah. What I was saying about the government and all the different things that we disagree with, like the Israeli policy, the military policy, et cetera. If we all say, I’m only paying taxes for the things that I like, it becomes completely unworkable.
So we have to pull our resources together for things like security, things that protect our lives. Police, fire, department, healthcare, et cetera. So that’s why I’m saying you can’t say, hey, I don’t like that part. I don’t like that part. I’m not going to pay my taxes for that. I’m not going to pay my taxes for that. Even if it deeply bothers you, as it does for me. That’s how we pull our money together, and that’s how we work together. No, I concede that what you’re saying is not wrong. I can see. I’m just saying I think you think that’s an argument for you.
I’m not saying it’s wrong. I’m actually think. I think you’re making the argument for us. We have to pay for shit we don’t like and we’d rather not. I’d rather pay for things that we. There is mass consensus on military courts at the state level, roads, the other things you’re talking about funding for Israel. You’re, you’re, you’re making a point we both agree on. You don’t like it. I do. So why should you have to pay for it? I agree, but that’s fine. That’s, you know, it’s weird. We’re kind of agreeing and pretending to disagree. It’s just a larger issue there.
Let me get to this last point because I’m running out of time, but again, I appreciate you being here. I think it’s been really, you know, productive. The abortion issue, obviously a hard one. You know, I’ve asked this question. It’s not a trick. I’m not trying to set anybody up. Do you accept any limitations on abortion and when does life begin? But most importantly, what are you basing that on? Your answer? Because again, no one, no liberals, ever given me an answer. How do they know that? When they give an answer and I ask in part two, they don’t.
No one responds. Dan, I’ll be your huckleberry. So here’s the answer. So, number one, I’m in favor of Roe v. Wade. Now, I’m going to surprise you in a couple of factors here. Number one, I was against Roe v. Wade as a Supreme Court decision. It was legislation. It was not a court decision. It was activist. Okay. And the reason is there’s no talk of abortion in the Constitution. That’s absurd. There’s no talk of the trimesters in the Constitution. They just made that up. And that was at a time when Lewis Powell said, hey, and he was a right winger, worked for the Chamber of Commerce, and said, let’s pack the courts with activist judges.
So that gave us Roe v. Wade, but that also gave us Citizens United and the unlimited corruption where the judges said, oh, yeah, the Constitution says that you’re allowed to bribe politicians through campaign contributions. They just made that up. Now in the legislation that they made up Roe v. Wade, it was actually excellent legislation. I agree with it from a policy perspective. Right. And that’s what they should pass on a national level. So what did that say? Did that say unlimited abortion? No, it said that abortion should be legal in the first two trimesters and the third trimester is illegal.
And unless the health of the mother or the baby is involved. Right. Well, at that point, you know, if the baby’s passed away and they need to get it out, etcetera, and that’s usually only 1% of abortions happens in the last trimester. And it’s almost always because of a health emergency like that. And guys, you got to remember, I know there’s a lot of hyperbole out there, but a woman is not going to carry a baby around for nine months. And then at the end go, I changed my mind. It’s. I take it out. Almost never happens.
And the people that have been there for nine months, that, I mean, that have carried it to term for nine months are desperate to have that baby. It’s almost always health emergencies. So in terms of when does life start? You know, Dan, I actually used to be what you would call pro life for a brief period of my time in college. And the reason was I was like, exactly the point you’re making. I was like, well, when does life begin? Conception makes sense as a place where life begins. But then I realized that, no, that’s not actually true.
It’s the question isn’t life. The question is dependent or independent life. So if the life is dependent, whatever form of life you think it is, on the mom or on anyone, that is their choice, once it becomes independent, then it’s a human being. And the government then has a responsibility to protect that independent human being. If, if we. If it can survive outside the womb, then it’s a person. Until then, it’s a zygote, it’s a fetus, and the mom has the responsibility and the freedom to Control her own body. I’m sorry, I only got a few minutes, and I want to make sure we wrap this up appropriately.
I just want to take a second to answer, and then if I don’t get to. I promise I’m not trying to screw you over. We will definitely do it on your show. It’s not an effort to, like, box you in at the end. Again, you’ve been very generous with your time. I think this has been really good back and forth. We have barely interrupted each other. The dependence issue, I hear, brought up a lot. But it’s interesting when I bring up to people and I say, well, you know, dependence. What about human beings at the end of life? There are people, you know, you know, grandparents who have Alzheimer’s and things were dependent on other people, too.
It’s a fascinating argument. You say, depends. I said, should we kill them, too? And they said, well, that’s silly. You know, that’s. You’re making an argument about dependence in a different way. Well, I’m really not. I mean, I’m the woman, the person actually would not be able to live without an additional human being support. And then secondly, you know, I appreciate you giving a candid answer. You never hear that from liberals, so applause there for that. And the fact that you acknowledge at one point you felt differently about it, that’s actually rare. I never hear that in the abortion issue.
There’s always endless filibustering. So I’m glad you actually gave an answer on viability, but on the conception thing, I just can’t understand how people get around this. Every single human being on planet Earth was conceived. Not every conception resulted in a human being. You have ectopic pregnancies, you have miscarriages, granted, but every human being on Earth was conceived. It’s not a difficult scientific argument to make. I just wish liberals would be honest about it. And you gave an honest answer. I wish they would just say, well, we’re, you know, we don’t really care if it’s alive or not.
We just don’t think it should be allowed to live if the mother doesn’t want it to. I really. I have a minute left. I want to let you respond. I have a hard minute and I got to run to the radio, but go, Go ahead. Yeah, look, financial dependence on someone is very, very, very different than a physical, literal, biological dependence. And so what I’m worried about is, guys, you say you’re for freedom, but you’re taking women’s freedom away. And you’re saying you don’t get to decide what you do with your body and. And what you do with your life.
You’re going to have to raise this kid for 18 years. You’re going to have to carry it for nine months. We’re just taking your body. I mean, look at what happened with the vaccines. People were so upset about. A simple jab like that was like the biggest intrusion into your freedom. Imagine if the government made you carry another life form for nine months and take care of it for the rest of your life. That’s taking your freedom away. If. If it’s an independent human being, the government should protect it. But if it’s in your body and it’s not a human being yet, you get to make the choice.
All right, I guess we’re gonna have to disagree on when it’s a human being, but I will do your show, Cenk. You just get with my team like I got with yours. And I appreciate you giving us the opportunity to speak like two men about the issues from a different perspective. We’re both running businesses, both very successful. I’m a little later to the live stream video game. I know you guys been around a while, but I appreciate it and thank you for coming on. I think that was really productive. Appreciate your time. Thank you, Dan. Me too.
It was a good conversation. Thank you. I agree, folks. Thanks so much. I really appreciate your time. I got a jet. Go to radio. Please don’t forget to join us election night, 7:30pm Eastern time. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. I always like a good debate. Talking over each other never works. Join me here on Rumble and the Radio show in just a few minutes. Please give us a follow@rumble.com bongino and download the Rumble app. See you in a few minutes on the Radio show and back here on Monday at 11:00am you just heard the Dan Bongino show.
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