Summary
➡ The discussion revolves around the political future of Texas amid rapid demographic changes, concerns over Governor Abbot’s handling of border issues, potential voter apathy and the idea of ‘Texit’ or Texas independence. The notion of an independent Texas has been suggested as a movement against centralized government power, sparking high voter turnouts and serving as a viable self-governing entity, potentially inspiring other states.
➡ The text discusses the historical and constitutional validity of secession based on local self-government rights, referencing laws, court cases and the Articles of Confederation. It also emphasizes the importance of citizens exercising their political power and refers to an ongoing campaign for a Texas Independence Referendum. Finally, the latter part of the text announces an upcoming event in Waco.
Transcript
So mark your calendars. It’s November 9 to twelveTH. I’ll be speaking there and shining light on this very important event as well as meeting tons of Turley talkers out there. So make sure to click on the link below. Join me and thousands of patriots who are defending faith, family and freedom through this amazing national sovereignty movement. Now it doesn’t matter where you live, right? You’re not going to want to miss this.
We don’t know what’s going to happen in 2024 and Texas may indeed be the arc that we’re all desperately hoping for at that time. So click in the link in the description below to get your tickets. And if you use the code Turley 20 at checkout, you’re going to get an awesome discount. So it’s a huge deal. Can’t wait to get out there and meet you all. It’s been far too long now to share more about this amazing event, I’m joined today by one of my personal heroes making return visit to our channel and that’s the one and only Daniel Miller, president of the Texas nationalist movement.
You’ve seen Daniel on Fox, you’ve seen him on CNN, on CNBC, on BBC, I mean the list goes on and on. That’s because Daniel has for decades now worked tirelessly to free Texans from an overbearing and now incessantly woke leftist federal bureaucracy in DC. And in the process he’s turned the Texas nationalist movement into the single foremost secessionist movement in the entire United States. So Daniel, welcome back, my friend.
Great to see you again. Thanks Doc. That was a heap of praise. Let’s not make this awkward. Well, when we first were chatting with each other before the interview, I called you sir sir Daniel Mills. So it’s just on the same level. Well, it’s an honorary one, I’ll take it. Look, I’m going to call you Doc because that’s what I do. I mean the moment you add a Dr in front of your name, you’re immediately doc.
That’s that, that’s what’s up, doc. That’s right. So give everybody I mean, I’m so excited about this, Daniel. I got to tell you, when I saw Texacon, like, I got to be there. These are our peeps. So give everyone an overview of Texacon. What are some of the things that we’re going to be learning and experiencing at this amazing conference? Yeah, I’ll tell you. Just a little bit of backstory.
So several years ago, we had done some smaller conferences sort of along the line of Texas independence, really focused on our mission. And they were run more like one day or two day long Ted Talk events, right? We’d bring in subject matter experts to talk about whatever. But there had been an increasing clamor from Texit supporters that wanted something larger. They wanted more people, they wanted more discussion topics, they wanted more experts.
And so the team set off about a year ago and said, look, we’re going to do this. We’re going to put together this conference and it’s going to be the end all, be all on the issues of independence and self determination. And let’s be honest, Doc, part of the challenge that we have had people that are proponents of a fundamental reexamination of state sovereignty and the federal system, there has not been a gathering of folks like us, a major one.
There were a couple, like over a decade ago, a couple of North American conferences, but they were very small affairs. And so this one is slated to be the largest gathering of pro independence, pro sovereignty advocates, proponents questioners we’re taking inquirers too. There’s no litmus test on the ticket sales, but we’re going to have subject matter experts from folks like yourself to Dr. Matt Quartrup is going to be there.
He is the world’s foremost expert on independence referendums. We’ve got elected officials, former elected officials, grassroots organization leaders here in Texas, and we’re going to be talking about the political, economic, cultural aspects of Texit. We’re going to be talking about self determination in a much larger context as well. We’re going to talk about some of the nuance in relation to politics here in Texas and the federal government.
And we’re going to have a track specifically for people who say, you know what, I get it. I don’t need any more stones in my foundation. What I want to know is how I can go be effective. And so we’ve got an entire track for activism training. That’s amazing. I have a good friend, we were just talking beforehand. I live in Delaware and I have a good friend just across the border in Cecil County, Maryland, who just moved down to you in Waco, Texas, where the conference is going to be.
One of the first things he did is he joined the border militia and joined up with Texas nationalist movement. Like we’re talking, he’s a left UG who came into Texas. Hey man, I got a lot of time to make up here. I’m going to dive all just for me when I was looking, when I go to the website and gang, just click on the link below and you can get your tickets, check out the website, all this great stuff.
When I looked at just the networking alone, just with like minded patriots, for me, that’s what makes this so priceless. The conversations, the meals, the clicking of glasses, with hundreds and hundreds of fellow patriots dedicated to faith, family, and freedom. I mean, to me, that’s what really it’s all about developing new friendships. I do it every conference. It happens every time. That lasts forever. I mean, there’s nothing like it.
Well, Doc, this has been sort of a key focus for us as an organization and I think has really attributed to our growth. I mean, you got to remember, we started out with six people and polling support in single digits back in 2005, and it was an explicit recognition that the tool of the opposition is to make each of us feel like we’re alone. And Gene Sharp and I don’t know if you’re familiar with Gene Sharp’s work probably so.
Gene Sharp wrote that book called From Dictatorship to Democracy that’s been translated into every language and has toppled totalitarian dictators just with that information in that book around the right. And one of the things that Sharp talked about is this concept called atomization. And atomization is he terms it as a tool used by totalitarian regimes or systems to essentially isolate everyone as an individual. If you can prevent them from connecting with one another, you can effectively strangle the baby in the cradle.
That baby being opposition to your totalitarianism. One of the biggest things that has been, I think, sort of a tip of the spear for us since our founding was to overcome that atomization. At the moment that you start getting people standing up and being unafraid. Unashamed, right. And they stand up and say, this is what I believe, and I don’t care if the rest of the world believes like I do or not.
This is what I believe. Well, that emboldens other people to do that same thing. And so you take something like the Texit conference and what it effectively does, the networking, aside from all the wonderful information and speakers and everything else, the true opportunity here is for us to connect with one another so that people don’t feel like they’re alone. You got to remember right now, mainstream media and the progressives tell everyone that this is a marginal idea, that states becoming self governing independent nations is fringe and marginal.
They try to marginalize it as much as they can. But what they don’t tell you is they don’t tell you that over the last 70 to 80 years, there have been about 140 brand new self governing independent nations formed on this earth. Right. They don’t tell you that in summer of 2022, survey USA ranked the number one most accurate polling company even by 538. Right? The most accurate released a poll that showed that 60% of Texas voters and 66% of likely voters would vote Texas out of the union if given that opportunity today.
They don’t tell you that the Republican Party of Texas, the most dominant political party here. They hold every statewide office they have majorities in. Both House and Senate have two planks on their platform calling for a vote on. And so the Texit conference is our way, our opportunity to marry the expert opinions, the discussions, and everything else with that key thing that you were just talking about, which is, look, let’s get together and let’s just celebrate believing in freedom and self determination.
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s nothing like it. It’s so sweet, so beautiful. I know a big concern for a lot of people. I hear this a lot, and you and I were talking about that before we went on air. And people both inside and outside Texas is the concern is the prospect of Texas becoming a purple state thanks to the rapid demographic changes occurring due to the wide open southern border in particular, but also the concern about Know coming from California and the like.
Kudos to Governor Abbot. I know there’s plenty to bellyache about the guy, but busing migrants by the tens of thousands to New York City and mean was just a brilliant move, especially in terms of how it created this rift inside the Democratic Party. But that said, what do you see in terms of the prospects of Texas turning purple? And are Democrats already these characteristic fraudulent tactics to try to hasten that possibility? Yeah, look, I think Texas internally has some issues, right? I think we’ve got some political issues.
But I would say this. I would say that the Texas voters haven’t spoken yet. Right? If you look at voter turnout here in Texas, particularly during the primaries, but even during the general election, it’s pretty abysmal. And the reason that it’s abysmal is that the people feel disconnected from their government. I mean, take the partisan discussion out of it, right? Republican versus Democrat. The vast majority of Texas voters are looking at that system and they’re saying there’s not a dime’s worth of difference.
Right. When you’ve got the current controversy down here right now with the border issues and Greg Abbot’s ineffectiveness at the border, or you have the impeachment saga with the Texas Attorney general that was spearheaded by people that are was he was a staunch defender of Texas against the So. You know, the vast majority of voters are looking at this and going, look, I’m not seeing anything here. That’s a dime’s worth of difference between the two in know.
So what Texit does for us, and I think this is the important thing to know I mentioned Dr. Cortrup a moment ago, and one of the things about having an academic like him consulting for us is we get access to all kinds of phenomenal academic data. And one of the things that he has ascertained is that the average voter turnout for independence referendums is 85%. Now, which means that you take every other hot button issue.
I mean, anything, no matter what side you’re on, you take any other hot button issue, and understand, they don’t drive voter turnout like putting independence on the ballot. So you put 85% voter turnout in the Texas elections, and then there won’t be a conversation about whether Texas is red, blue, or purple. The only thing people will be talking about is that Texas is going to be independent. Independent? Wow, that’s amazing.
And again yeah, I remember reading a stat. 2 million voters in Brexit in 2016 voted for the first time in that referendum. It just drew out voters overwhelmingly. And of course, those who wanted to remain with the EU were just overwhelmed in those numbers. That was the sneak are those are the voters that can’t be accounted for by the overpriced political consultants. They don’t factor in because at the end of the day, the policies and the governance have driven those people into neutral.
But independence lets them put it in gear and put the pedal to the metal, and that’s what they do. I mean, they stay engaged in that process all the way. Know, as I said, not to be repetitive, but I don’t think the Texas voters have spoken yet. Yeah, and again, I couldn’t agree with you. We’re seeing it. We saw that the Brexit in 2016 and then the next national election that they had was just a few years later in December of 2019 when Boris Johnson was pushing himself as the Brexit prime minister and the conservative the Tories won in the biggest landslide in 100 years.
I mean, you had districts who had never voted for the Tories before. Very blue collar districts suddenly switch over and vote, just like what we saw with Trump and Wisconsin and Iowa and Michigan and Pennsylvania. So you’re right. I mean, it’s a political paradigm shift that these overpriced consultants just have no idea of. I mean, I know a lot of people are going to be commenting down below and they’re going to say, look, you can’t let Texas leave the union.
If Texas leaves, we’ll never have another Republican win national office again. You’re our only hope. And what’s so interesting to me with that is that the more we think about it, though, even if that were the case, interestingly, an independent Texas would actually be very beneficial to patriots in the larger 49, as it were. Because I think one of the first things that would end, of course, would be illegal immigration, wouldn’t it? You would see that come to a virtual halt with an independent Texas.
Am I tracking rightly with that? Yeah, I mean, look, it changes the scope. The two things I encourage people to do. Look, if you’re concerned about Texas withdrawing from the union, understand that it’s already happening, right? That process is already underway. But here are your two options. Move or plant your flag in your state and start doing what we’re doing in your state. Because this idea that other states can’t do this is a fallacy.
I mean, you pull out virtually any state in the union and you begin to compare them with other self governing, independent nations around the world. Virtually across all measures, they stack up quite well and probably could stack up quite well. There is a myth that a state has to be self sufficient to be independent, and that’s a lie. It’s not. They just have to be viable. And the viability comes from the desire of the people to govern themselves and stand as a peer on the world stage.
That’s where it comes from. It’s a self confidence issue. The rest follows from that. And I know people may say that seems very psycho babble Pollyanna, but unfortunately for those folks that would say that, this is what the world’s trends have shown us, is that it’s about viability and a people’s willingness to stand up for something. So for anyone that would be concerned about that, understand that Texas has got to make the decision that’s best for Texas.
But that decision plays well for everyone, right? Because even if someone were concerned about that, if Texas stayed, we know the trajectory the federal government’s on. We know what the end game looks like. If you wanted to leave at that point, where would you go? Right? I mean, are you going to go plant your flag in Antarctica? Because it’s not like you got a lot of options left.
So Texas becomes a beacon and an example of what independence looks like and could inspire others. Maybe the conversation in Texas voting to withdraw, maybe that shocks the federal system into perhaps some reforms that devolve power back to the states. But ultimately, we’ve got to do what is best for the people of Texas and let everyone else enjoy the spillover effect. And I love how you put that, because this is something I’ve dedicated a lot of my channel to.
This is not astroturf. This is very organic, this re territorialization, this relocalization of happening. You and I talked about this last time, and I know you have a lot of international connections. This is going on all over the world. I mean, heck, what’s going on in Ukraine right now is largely because of a breakaway Dunbass region of two republics there. I mean, this is going on everywhere. So I think people can be a little naive, thinking, oh, well, I could just talk you out of this.
You guys can’t leave. Let’s sit down, let’s have a conversation, and let me just bring you to your senses. I was going to say, the cat’s out of the bag, but give me a better Texas version. The horse is out of the barn. That’ll be much better than My cat out of the bag. Yeah, the horse is out of the barn. This is something that’s happening, like you said, just in the last 30 to 70 years, the world map has gotten more and more states, more and more nations, not less and less.
Decentralization is the trend. So tell people who may be skeptical of independence just give them a quick rundown on how secession is legal. It is possible and certainly would benefit Texans. Sure. And look, the constitutional case for states withdrawing from the Union is quite simple. Number one, Article One, section Ten, lists everything states are forbidden from doing and it’s not in there. Withdrawing from the Union is not included in that list.
Therefore, you go to the 10th Amendment and it says that any powers not granted to the federal government or prohibited to the states are reserved to the states and the people. So what that means is we have to take a look at the Texas Constitution. And the Texas Constitution is clear. Article One, section One, starts with the words, texas is a free and independent state, says it’s subject only to the United States Constitution.
And it says that the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend on the right of local self government unimpaired to all the states. So article One, section One, a post Civil War Constitution essentially sets a trigger mechanism for this to happen, which is the right of local self government becoming impaired. Then you go to article One, section Two, and it reserves as an inalienable right to the people the right to alter, reform, or abolish our government in such manner as we may think expedient.
So it’s a reserved right. It’s inalienable. And you have to look at it from the standpoint that if it is explicitly inalienable, then it’s on the same par as the right to keep and bear arms, the freedom of speech, freedom of religion, any of those things that people would think of as inalienable rights. Now, some people may counter and say, okay, that’s fine, but what about that Supreme Court case of Texas versus White? And I got to tell you, Doc, one of my favorite things that I have done that I do is destroy Texas versus white.
I love doing it. I’m not going to eat up all your time by doing that. But what I will say is I can see the mouth frothing over, hey, don’t threaten me with a good but, you know, Texas versus White is a Supreme Court case for most of the people that invoke it. Number one, they’ve never read, never read they’ve never read any of the context of the case.
They’ve never read the decision, they never read Greer’s dissent. But second, it doesn’t say what people think. It says it’s internally inconsistent. So you take Chase’s decision in Texas versus white. He says that, oh, it’s an indissoluble Union comprised of indestructible states. Okay, well, that’s fine. So they say that means that you can never leave the Union, except for the fact that Chase goes in and contradicts himself and says, oh, but states can withdraw from the Union with consent of the other states or revolution.
But none of that matters because that’s dicta. It’s internally inconsistent. And one of the key things that he bases his decision on is this belief that somehow the United States Constitution is an amending instrument to the Articles of Confederation via the preamble to the Constitution. He says that in the Preamble, when it says to form a more perfect union, that it essentially ties back to the Articles of Confederation, which refer to the Articles as a perpetual union, which we know is a lie, because states had to withdraw from that union and the Articles to ratify the US.
Constitution to form a more perfect union. Right. So if that’s the case, chase’s entire decision is based upon this belief in the Preamble, because that’s the only constitutional language that he uses. Justified. Well, fast forward the clock to the early 20th century to a Supreme Court case called Jacobson v. Massachusetts. Has nothing to do with secession, has nothing to do with the Civil War. But what it has to do with is the state’s ability to force vaccinations on people, which is OD.
But the big conclusion of the Court and this is the important part the big conclusion of the Court is the federal government can derive no power from the preamble that is not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution itself. So effectively, Jacobson v. Massachusetts overturns Texas v. White. And then there’s other things. But the bottom line is it’s legal, it’s constitutional, it’s moral, it’s right. And anyone who would say contrary is essentially saying that government is greater than God and don’t sign me up, I’m not going to that summer camp.
That’s right. Yes, exactly. That’s just the definition of tyranny at that point. What are the prospects so you mentioned that a vote on a referendum did make its way into the Texas Republican platform. They’ve called for that. I know you’ve had some bills put on the floor here or there. What are the prospects say in the next five years of the possibility of a referendum happening? Look, I think it’s know you have to get down to making some determinations versus some preliminary advisory referendums versus the final binding one, like the Brexit vote.
Although Dr. Courtrup would argue that even the Brexit vote was advisory in nature. But that’s a whole other conversation. But we had last two sessions, even though they said it would never happen. We’ve had the Texas Independence Referendum Act filed twice. And you got to understand, here in Texas, that’s kind of a big deal. We’re on an every two year cycle. Our legislature only meets for 140 days every other year.
Right. So just getting bills filed a lot of times is the hurdle. So there have been some shifts in the political grounds here. Right now we’re running a petition campaign that if we cross the finish line on it by December 1, by law, the Republican Party will be forced to put it the question on the primary ballot in an advisory capacity only. Right. They ask about ten or eleven resolutions every cycle.
This would be one of them. And the effect that that would have can’t be really measured. And it goes back to what I said a moment ago about average voter turnout when the independence question is asked. We might not get 85% voter turnout in a party primary, but if we double turnout with pro Texit voters, it gives us the opportunity to run the table from the State House to the schoolhouse and put pro Texit candidates in elected positions.
So we’re running a multifaceted strategy. But if you’re asking what this prospect looks like for the next five years, I’m not a prophet, I’m not Miss Cleo. I can’t read your cards. But what I can say is this ultimately, how long this takes is going to depend 100% on the desire of the people to help make it happen and make the political changes necessary to smooth the path.
Yeah, politicians, they’re always going to go with status quo. That’s just where their power and their affluence comes from and the like. And it was fascinating watching that little Civil War play out with Paxton and the Bush rove wing of the party to talk about crazy. So I can only imagine what you guys are always dealing with, with those dynamics there. Look, this is what we tell all of our folks, and I think it’s good, savvy political advice for anyone.
No matter whether you live in Texas or anywhere else, if your politicians are windsocks, you need to be the wind. And the stronger the wind blows, the more you can determine the direction of that windsock. And that’s just the bottom line. Too many people get an elected office and they turn into windsocks. And so you as the people. Article one, section two. The very first words of it that I mentioned a moment ago, but the very first words say that all political power is inherent in the people.
And so every movement to move these electeds must at its heart, be a people movement. Wow, you just summed up the people versus the political class perfectly. Just the new dialectic that’s just forming all over the world. Gang, you heard it. Come see Daniel and me in Waco, November 9 to twelveTH. It’s going to be so awesome. I can’t wait. I’ll be hosting a special meet and greet for my courageous patriot insiders, and you’ll be able to network with patriots from all over the state, indeed all the nation.
You may even see some from all over the world. So don’t wait. Click on the link in description below. Use code Turley 20 turley 20 to get your tickets with an awesome discount. And do it now. Don’t want to wait. Daniel, awesome seeing you again. I cannot wait to see you in a few weeks. We’re going to have so much fun and I can’t thank you enough for having me.
Come on out here. You guys are amazing and all the best. And we’ll have to have you back here real soon. Sounds great, Doc. I’ll keep the coffee hot for you. Can’t wait. And ribeyes. I want ribeyes. Oh, look, you know that goes without saying, right? Goes without saying it’s, right? Absolutely. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you. Thanks, Doc. .
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