If he did get in and he did say what he. Sorry, he does do what he said he would do, then potentially he could affect quite a lot of change, you know, but it would create a lot of uncertainty in the short term, huge uncertainty. Well, hello there, my friends. Chris Marcus here with you for Arcadia Economics on our show. We’re recording on Monday afternoon, although this will be live Tuesday. So in the midst of election day, finally here some ways a good thing. I would say we’d be done hearing about the election, although it seems like no matter what happens on Tuesday, that the declaration of who the act acceptance of who the actual winner is probably going to be drawn out.

And obviously this has been in the midst of what I think has been quite a historic rally in 2024. Not sure if there’s another year besides 1980 or 2011 that this would stack behind, although we’ll be digging into all of that and more with today’s guest, a first time guest on the show, although someone that many of the long timers in the precious metals markets know quite well. It’s Marco Burns of Terra Coins and Mark, it’s a pleasure to have you join me here. And how are you today? I’m great, Chris. Yeah, thanks a lot for having me on and thanks for all the work you’ve done over the years.

I’ve enjoyed your show. Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate you digging into a lot of this market action that is happening. And why don’t we start with the election. Monday was a little bit quiet in gold and silver, but any thoughts you have on whether it makes a difference to the gold and silver markets, depending on who wins or anything, and let’s take it from there. I mean, I think it can make a difference in the short term, but I think, you know, we’re always better to focus on the medium and long term when it comes to precious metals and particularly physical gold and silver bullion.

So I don’t think it’ll make a whole lot of difference one way or the other because, you know, the problems that we face not just in the US but globally in terms of this global fiat debt Ponzi system that we have is so gigantuan and so enormous that, you know, it is an element of don’t like to be the bear, bad news. I am an optimist by nature, but there is an element of rearranging the chairs, the deck chairs, into the Titanic, you know, and to me it does not really matter whether, and it’s been similar for many years, whether it be Republican or Democrat, you know, it’s like, does, it’s almost a bit of a Punch and Judy show, you know, and, and no matter what they say in these elections, when they get elected and they get into power, they frequently do the opposite of what they said they do, you know, so Trump might be a little bit more true to his platform potentially, and to what he’s saying he will do.

And if he did get in, which is, it’s very difficult to see who’s going to get in, but on balance, it looks like he is more likely to get in. But as you are suggesting alluding to there, I think it’s going to be, it’s going to be contested almost certainly, you know, and it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s pretty shocking. I mean, I, I’m not easily shocked, but after what’s happened in recent years, I’m not easily shocked, but the, the level of acrimony and division and just absolute aggression. You know, it’s not passive aggression. It’s just outright vicious attacks, verbal attacks and, and incitement to hatred.

And it’s actually, it’s shocking. It really is shocking, you know, to see it in the, you know, the land of the free and the home of the brave, you know, this, the land of, that gave much of the world democracy. You know, it’s quite, it makes me quite sad because I would be very pro American and pro the best aspects of America, you know, which is obviously the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, you know. And so to me, unfortunately, you know, until there is a power behind the throne, we know that, you know, there is sort of a, a permanent government in, in many countries around the world, not just in the U.S.

you know, so, so whoever’s in power, they’re going to really address and tackle that. Trump says he will. Whether he will or not, I don’t know, but he says he will. So it would be interesting to see if he did get in and he did say what he. Sorry, he did do what he said he would do, then potentially he could affect quite a lot of change, you know, but it would create a lot of uncertainty in the short term, huge uncertainty. And it would create, as we were chatting beforehand, you alluded to in terms of those free market policies, in terms of slashing taxes and all the rest and cutting government spending.

And that has to be done at some stage because it’s out of control, the government spending, you know, particularly, you know, military spending. But all those cuts would result in almost certainly massive deflation and a deflationary potentially depression, you know, so, so, but at the end of the day, I think we need that. We need, we need a recession to clear out all the deadwood and in effect have a proper reset which is based on libertarian values of free markets and of free trade amongst people and nations. You know, because people are being, you know, businesses, the productive members of society around the world are being suffocated with both the crazy taxes which have gone higher and higher, and all these stealth taxes and now the shrinkflation, the inflation and the debasing of currency that we’re seeing, you know, so it’s very, very destructive.

It’s been seen throughout history. You know, this is the way most empires end. So will Trump arrest that decline? He could potentially, but there would, it would quite a sharp reset that would have to take place, you know, so it’s, that’s a long way of me saying, unfortunately, Chris, I think there’s going to be pain one way or the other. But as we know, no pain, no gain. We need some pain actually. You know, and to have a proper reset, not a reset for the benefit of certain corrupt elites and certain corrupt elite interests, but a reset for the benefit of the working class, the middle classes and the entrepreneurial members of our society, the people who work hard and they create jobs and they create wealth.

That’s what the reset has to be about, you know, and someone who has that vision, Trump has that vision to a degree. Decisions with Trump, he’s far from perfect, you know, and, you know, but the other day, it’s what scares me most is just a complete lack of respect for the truth, actually, and for allowing a debate, a healthy debate amongst people. And unfortunately it comes down to the media because there is no balance there whatsoever. You know, and it’s, we’ve lost the so called for state. You know, they’re meant to, they’re meant to ask questions, they’re meant to accurately portray what both sides are saying.

And that hasn’t happened at all for a long time. But it’s actually gotten worse. I didn’t think it get worse, but it’s actually gotten worse, you know, and that’s been seen in media around the world now. We see it in the UK media, we see it in media here in Ireland where I am, the media is becoming more and more partisan, you know, and there’s no balance there. And yeah, so it’s quite, quite dangerous. So, yeah. So in terms of precious metals, the bottom line for me is precious metals are going to go higher one way or the other and again, as we all say in this space, it’s not that they’re going higher per se, it’s that the dollar in particular, but also the euro and the British pound that all fiat currencies are going to lose a lot of value.

They are losing value. That’s what’s happening right now as we speak. Gold and silver not going up per se. It’s that the fiat currencies are losing value and that is going to continue. Whether we see Trump on power or Kamila Harris, whether we see Republicans or Democrats, you know, it will not make a whole lot of difference what we’re doing. We could have a short term impact obviously, but medium and long term, I wouldn’t think it would have a whole lot of impact one way or the other. You know. Yeah, a lot of great points that you had in there and I, I know what you mean.

Where certainly for most of the elections that I’ve lived through, maybe I didn’t realize it exactly at the time, but it’s usually been two, two different flavors of the same choice. Again, I, I don’t know exactly what Trump is going to do if he’s elected, although like you mentioned some of the things he’s suggesting, it leaves me in a weird mindset where it’s on one hand the lower taxes, the if he brings Elon Musk in to cut a lot of wasteful government spending. From a free market perspective, yes, those are great things. To the degree that we’re past the point where you can do those without actually having the consequences come due, it’s sinking in where I don’t know that they’re really ready to take those steps, although they’re talking about it.

Here’s J.D. vance, who has mentioned before that he’s a big fan of a dollar devaluation. Now he’s saying he’s coming around to Ron Paul’s view on the Federal Reserve. We have RFK in there talking about taking fluoride out of the water, busting up big pharma. So like you said, we don’t know exactly who’s going to win or what they will be able to implement if they do come in. But I guess we’ll get a little more clarity on that in the next couple of days and weeks. Although Mark, shifting back to gold and silver and I agree to your larger point that forces driving that ultimately money creation, debt, we have a pretty good idea what’s going to happen there.

Although a Would you say that what we’ve seen so far in 2024 puts this really in the number three ranking of whatever category you want to call it, of significant years in gold and silver. We had 1980, we had 2011. I don’t remember a year seeing a rally quite of this significance. I’ve been thinking about it and seems to be in the three slot for me. And second part to that also is what do you think in particular has driven the medals, both of them, so much in this year, which was not a year where it was just unexpected easing from early on, but we saw anticipated cuts just finally coming through about a month and a half ago.

So what would you say in terms of how it stacks up and why this year? Yeah, it’s a good, good point. I think you’re probably right in terms of the comparisons with 1980, 2011, in terms of the price move in terms of. Yeah, it is acting as a safe haven again, as it did in that period, 2008, 9, 10, 11, and as it did in the late 1970s. But there’s parallels there. This time. I think we’re more at the start of. I don’t even like the. I used to use the term for a long time, as most people in the space.

We talk about bull markets and bear markets, but really bull markets and bear markets are really phenomenal that we see in traded markets in terms of stock markets and bond markets, you know, whereas I think, you know, it is money and, you know, obviously have a bear market in a fiat currency, but it’s not really. They’re not really bear markets on bull markets because ultimately they’re always losing value. We’ve seen the dollars lost 99% of its value since 1913, you know, so. So, yeah, parallels at 1980, 2011. But, but I think we’re, we’re sort of. Yeah, it’s 2024.

I think it could be a bit of a light bulb moment. I think the masses are beginning to wake up. I was amazed for many, many years. I used to do daily market update nearly every single day from 2004, early 2005 through to 2020. And I always thought there would be a light bulb moment whereby the masses would wake up, you know, and we’d see that gold rush. And I used to always see the headlines, gold rush. And I knew there was no gold rush because I could see, I could see in my own business what demand was there, how many new account openings there were, you know, what was happening in business.

And then I was speaking to other dealers in the US and in Germany and around the world. They were telling me that, yeah, demand had picked up a bit, but it wasn’t like. It wasn’t like suddenly the masses were all opening up bullion accounts and buying gold and silver and that. That hasn’t been seen. It was seen a little bit in 2011. There definitely was quite a significant increase in demand from the retail, but even then I think it still remains probably less than 1% of the, of the population of the sort of retail investors who were buying f.

Go pull in, you know, and Mark, so if I can just tap in for a second, what, what do you think really drove 2011? Well, I suppose it was the debt crisis. It started with Lehman Brothers, but in terms of specific demand and silver, we did have a significant jump in the ETFs and SLV. You mentioned there was some physical buying, but not overwhelming. I know there was also a situation with the. A bit of a short squeeze on the banking side, but I think that’s something people never really hear that much about. And if you have any thoughts on what on the silver investment side really made that price move like it did in 2011, there was quite a bit of physical demand, but it wasn’t, as you said, it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t a huge increase to merit the jump in the silver price up to the 50 price that it went to.

There was. I mean, I think there was a short squeeze, you know, but they didn’t lose control of the marketplace. They didn’t lose control the silver market, didn’t lose control of the silver futures market, you know, so there was that hope that we’re going to see a short squeeze and return to a free market. But I think ultimately, whether be JP Morgan or whoever else is at the back end there, I think, who knows, they may even have pushed it higher. They may have done a little bit of a pump and dump to push prices higher and then, you know, get it up to 50, create a bit of a speck of frenzy and then short the hell out of it and push it back down lower again, you know, and I think it’s quite possible that that happened, you know, but there were fundamental factors driving it in terms of, you know, obviously Lehman Brothers, the big banks under pressure being bailed out, then there was a sovereign debt crisis.

So there was real, real concerns there. And then, you know, Bernanke came in and, you know, they were talking about helicopter money and all the rest, and then they were talking about QE and Mario Dragon, so. Qe. So people, when people were realizing, wow, this quantum of easing is unprecedented, this is a monetary experiment, you know, so was leading to. Well, it was leading to new people moving into the gold and silver bullion marketplace, but only quite a small fraction of the overall retail investment marketplace. You know, there were some were buying ETFs, but even the ETF demand was, wasn’t huge.

You know, it tended to be even, you know, the smart money that were diversifying into bullion. So, yeah, so it’s interesting to see will we have that broadcast mass market participation ever in the bullying marketplace? I used to think it was automatic that that would happen, that we would see a gold rush, that everybody would be talking about it and, you know, it would become genuinely like everybody. Like, you know, people are queuing up in the streets. You see lines of people out in the streets of New York and London and every major city in the world.

People are outside the coin doodlers and there’s shortages. And who knows, that may well happen yet. You know, but sometimes I wonder, because the propaganda against the metals is so strong, I sometimes wonder whether we will ever see that phenomenon. And also I think bitcoin and some of the cryptos have been positioned in order to siphon demand away from gold and silver. And I was quite positive in bitcoin at the start because it had a lot of the qualities of gold and silver. But then I saw how certain sections of the financial media were almost positioning bitcoin to the masses as an alternative to gold, which the same people who are quite anti gold were now pro bitcoin.

And I felt that’s quite interesting, you know, and so I could see that it was actually, you know, in mainstream media, you know, big, big respective newspapers, internationally, in the financial space, and TV stations were basically saying, why buy gold and you can have digital gold, you know, and so, Annie, that’s a long way of saying that. Obviously the amount of money that’s gone into the bitcoin and the crypto space is huge, huge. And that has siphon demand away, particularly from silver, actually, but also to a degree from gold. So it makes me wonder whether we will ever see that sort of mass market mania gold rush that that many of us have expected.

And so I’m not sure, and I don’t think people should hold their breath because I think a lot of people are waiting for that moment and then from a contrarian perspective, they might actually sell into that, you know, but that may never happen. We have to be, you know, we have to be realistic about it and it may happen. I’m not saying it won’t Happen. But, but I, I don’t think you should be basing your, your exit strategy on that, you know. Yeah, I understand what you mean. And certainly we have not seen that rush come into silver certainly on a retail level yet.

I mean there’s the last couple of years, we’ve had some elevated years. Although Mark, that’s another thing I’d love to get your opinion on. We’ve heard reports a lot of selling, I would say over a year now, within the past month I believe I’ve heard one dealer saying 5 to 1 sales to buy on a retail level. Anything you could comment on there based on what you’re seeing? Yeah, you know, I’m hearing that. So, so my model is design, mint and wholesale and I’m gonna, I’m gonna have to start going, doing some retail soon because the wholesale is slow.

And the reason the wholesale is slow is exactly as you’re alluding to there, the distributors, my retail distributors in Ireland and the UK and the US primarily, but in other countries as well, they are telling me that exactly as you said there, that there’s a huge amount of selling of gold coins in recent weeks and months, you know, and you know, gold has hit record highs consecutively over a period of weeks there, you know, record nominal highs. It’s important to, important to, to realize, but record highs nonetheless in the eyes of the public. They see it as record highs.

And I think what’s happened is there are a percentage of the gold buying population who maybe over allocated the precious metals and, and it’s the one sort of liquid asset that they have. And you know, there’s people who have, you know, there is a cost of living crisis, you know, and people have dependents, they have children, they have different expenses. So I think some people have been taking profits on their gold bullion at these record highs. And therefore there has been quite a lot of selling into the marketplace of both gold bullion coins and gold bullion bars.

The one ounce format, you know, and that means that, yeah, my, my distributors are saying, listen, why would we buy from you when we have to buy from you at a few percent over spot, whereas we’re buying from our retail clients at 1 or 2% below spot, you know, so they have quite big inventories now, which is interesting. And that’s been seen. I’m talking to dealers in the uk, in the US and in Germany. So it’s unusual. Normally when you would see record highs like that, you see headlines around the world and then more buying comes in.

But I think what’s happening is when I was doing a daily market update, I was looking at the Financial Times every single day. I would actually buy the hard copy paper nearly every single day. I’ve been looking at the financial press and media in the uk In London, there’s the Financial Times, there’s Telegraph and I’d be watching Bloomberg, I’ll be watching cnbc, I’d be looking at the Wall Street Journal and I’d be getting an overall feel for what’s going on. Back then in 2009, 10 11, when gold price hit record highs, it was, it was on the front page of, of the newspapers.

Whereas recently they were very slow to cover it. You know, even when gold hit record highs, they didn’t cover it for a few days. And then when it is covered frequently, it’s covered in sort of a negative way. So I think it’s not in the consciousness really of the people. I think it’s even less of the consciousness of the mainstream people now than it was in 2008. 9, 10, 11. Admittedly back then we were in a global financial crisis and realized it’s global financial crisis. Whereas now I don’t think people realize we’re in a crisis. It’s more of a sort of a political crisis, it’s a geopolitical crisis.

You see that in just the, obviously in the crisis we see in politics around the world, there’s so much division, you know, between protest and anti dash and people are divided along all sorts of religious lines, racial lines, biologies, men and women, sexuality, climate. It’s just, I mean, I don’t think there’s been a, a period. I studied history, but it’s, it’s so divisive, you know, so, so we have a political crisis, but we don’t have an economic crisis yet. I think you and me know there’s an economic crisis sort of bubbling away underneath and there’s a monetary crisis happening as we speak.

But that is not in the mainstream consciousness just yet. And until it is in the consciousness, we’re not going to see that sort of, that mainstream buying. But it is happening a small bit. I mean, the data from Costco was very interesting and the Costco data shows that there is a younger demographic of people buying bullion, you know, for the first time. And there’s women buying bullion for the first time. And obviously that’s due to the cost of living crisis and the fact that younger people in their 20s and 30s, they know they cannot afford to buy a house and they don’t want to save in dollars in the bank because they’re not getting any yield and their savings have been eroded by inflation.

So you cannot say for a house if inflation is running at 3, 5, 10%, whatever it is, you know, so, so maybe, maybe that, that’s part of what’s happening is that there are, I mean Walmart are selling bullion, Costco are selling bullion. So and then the big mints and the big refineries are also selling retail. So that’s potentially what’s happening with the smaller retail distributors is, is that they are getting, they’re getting buybacks, they’re, they’re getting people selling back into them and maybe they’re not selling as much because they have more competition from the refineries, the mints, the Costco’s, the Walmart.

So that could be an aspect as well that be interesting to see if you drill down into World Council numbers in terms of the supply demand, whether you get that sort of breakdown of the numbers. That could be a factor that’s just occurred to me now, you know, because Costco, they are selling quite reasonable volumes, you know, I don’t know. The interesting note of the volumes at Walmart are as well because Walmart are selling bullion as well, you know, so it’s interesting, interesting times. Have you seen any slowdown in the amount of selling? Is that changed at all in the past year or so? I think it’s definitely the slow, there’s a slowdown selling is my understanding in the last two weeks, four weeks, you know, I think there was a burst of selling there when gold prices got up.

You know, obviously the record highs was 2000. I think some people were underwater for a period of time and they’re waiting for gold to get back above 2000 to sell. So I think that was the initial burst of selling by certain people who had gold bullion coins. So I think in the last two or three weeks I think the selling has slowed down, but there’s still a bit of inventory there that needs to clear before those retailers start buying from the wholesalers again, you know, but, and there’s also the phenomena of the likes of the Royal Mint, I think the US Mint as well.

They have actually been minting massive, massive volumes, you know, and this is what we see in, in the industry, It’s a funny industry whereby it’s, it’s just, it’s so price driven. It’s incredibly price driven, you know, and, and when the prices go up, the mints and their fineries, they up their production in a massive, massive way, you know, and then a glut of supply comes in, there’s a slight delay before that comes into marketpl price and then the price peaks, then the price comes down. Then there’s a lot of inventory there. So it’s a funny, it’s a funny, funny industry.

I’ve been saying that why don’t they. They work more in a royalty model whereby they, they start selling based on actual demand rather than minting massive volumes and then sitting on massive inventories, you know. But it’s a funny, it’s a just, it’s one of the most competitive industries in the world. People don’t realize just how competitive it is, you know, because the likes of the U.S. mint and the Royal Mint and the big government mints, they’re, they’re now competing in a very big way retail as well as there used to be more traditional wholesale. You know, there used to be a clear demarcation between the wholesale and the retail.

Whereas those guys looked at the retail margins and they said, well, we can have a piece of that as well, you know. So, yeah, it’s interesting. And so one of the phenomena is I do think that some of the gold guys, they realize that silver is very, very cheap relative to gold. So I think some of that gold selling was also smart money. Who realized this is, it’s a good time to sell gold, it’s gone up quite a lot. And obviously the gold silver ratio, silver is very, very cheap. So I think a percentage of those, not a huge percentage, but it could be a good, you know, 20%, 25%, something like that, roughly.

I think we’re potentially people who are selling ultimate to swap into silver, know. So yeah, it’s interesting. Very interesting, yeah. And in the midst of that, okay, we’ve had selling from the retail side, which I wonder if that has helped to fund the deficit that we’re getting reported from Silver Institute for the last couple of years, that three back in 2022 rather, we saw inventories on COMAC and LBMA declined and that stabilized. Actually COMEX registered up a little bit over the past couple of months, but it’s coming down for a while. Then that stopped. Then for the year following that we saw declines in the ETFs.

Now some of these things are getting reversed. It seems like the selling this year coming from retail and a. I wonder if that, I wonder what happens when that gets exhausted. Tom, not saying we’re at that point yet, but if you, if we are going to run the deficit that metals focus and the silver Institute suggests if that did happen at the same time the retail selling did get exhausted, I’m just wondering how you see all of this playing out, because on top of it, as I know you’re familiar with, we don’t have a lot of capital going into the mining sector right now either.

So it seems like the conditions are in place that you could eventually hit a gap somewhere in there at the same time where we have. The industrial usage continues to be strong, maybe we hit a recession. We hit a recession. Do the government start pumping out money for green projects? That’s, that’s personally my vote. So, all that said, do you, what do you think about the possibility of hitting some sort of issue and also how else could it be resolved? When you say hitting some sort of issue, you mean in terms of the supply demand issue in the silver market? Yeah.

Where if we continue, if we are running the deficits as reported and we continue to run that long enough, then do we have an issue where there is a shortage of metal? Yeah, well, yes, there should be in a normal marketplace where supply demand factors are the key and they should be the key in, in markets. But as we’ve seen over the years, the silver market has not operated in that manner. So, and this remains the question, you know, I mean, I, I expected a short squeeze, you know, 2008, 9, 10, 11. Not because I was some genius or expert, it was more that I was following the guys who were so, you know, the likes of Ted Butler, Rest in Peace and David Morgan, the Silver Guru and the guys in gati, you know, and there’s so many people, there’s been books written about this, you know, in terms of the manipulation of gold and silver using the futures market, you know, and just even that, when you look at the price data and how it goes down from the a.m.

fix to the p.m. fix consistently, you know, I mean, it’s just flagrant, you know, and this used to be conspiracy theory, like lots of things. And, and then the cftc, you know, and, and the Department of Justice found JP Morgan guilty and they were fined a small sort of slap on the wrist of a few million euro fine. You know, it’s probably a trading desk, profits for a few hours, you know, and then they find some kid who’s, who’s a patsy and he’s, he’s the rogue trader, you know, on the desk. So I think until, you know, that manipulation ends, we won’t see a free market, a fair market.

And Sylvia, you know, and I think it will end, I do genuinely think that, you know, but I genuinely taught that in 2009, 10, 11, 12, and I was wrong. So. But I do think this time it’s quite different, you know, because, you know, the world has been much more divisive, you know, and obviously there are, you know, sovereign nations, whether be China and Russia in particular, also India, also Iran, you know, the US has, you know, unfortunately, it has sort of burnt bridges with some of these big, powerful emerging market nations, you know, and obviously all we talk about the bricks all the time and these are, you know, they have forged very interesting alliances.

So only in recent days we heard chatter that the Russians and sorry, I think it was more than chatter, I think reported on Interfax, which is the Russian, one of the state media organizations in Russia, so that the Russians are going to start buying silver, you know, so. And that’s something that I expected a long time ago that, that, you know, because we know the dollar is the Achilles heel of, of the U.S. the more corrupt elements in the U.S. who are about empire, you know, and so, so the dollar and the fiat nature of dollar is the Achilles heel.

And all it would take is China, Russia, India, Iran, any of these nations. And obviously the Middle east is just complete mess, you know, and it’s so unstable. Unfortunately, you know, we haven’t talked about that or Ukraine is a mess and the whole world is. It hasn’t been this unstable a long, long time, you know, so all will take a few of these sovereign nations to start putting in a few hundred million dollars worth of demand for fiscal bullion. And I think very quickly, those were not. I think it’s. There’s no doubt those warehouses would be cleared out very quickly.

So a fourth Majuro will be declared. And I think that’s only a matter of time. I do genuinely, you know, and so. So, yeah, yeah. And plus there’s the billionaires in the world. I mean, I used to have people telling me that, you know, what happened in 1979, 1980, would never happen again because that was the Hunt brothers, you know, and they said, look, look what happened to home brothers. They tried to corner them or. And look what happened to them. And I said, well, that was very different, like to today, back then there was only, you know, probably a few hundred billionaires in the world.

You know, there was only, you know, royal families and there was a few, you know, very wealthy banking elites and industrialists, but there was only a few hundred billionaires in the world back then, including hunters. Whereas today there’s thousands and thousands and thousands of billionaires and many of them are in China, many have been Russia, and, and they don’t care about American foreign policy. Some of these people, you know, and so they’re not subject to the SEC like the Hun brothers were, you know, so it’s a very, very different phenomena. And I think, and whether the Indians or Middle Eastern, you know, sheiks, these people have a lot, a lot of money, you know, and they’re getting worried.

And I think they are diversifying into both gold and silver. And I think the silver story is, it’s funny. I mean, it’s censored. You know, it’s not, I mean, it’s not important. I mean, gold is barely reported and it’s reported in negative and in a very biased and very selective, selective way. You know, where silver is even more. I mean, silver has been written out, look, if it gets a sentence in a report, you know, by Reuters or some of the, the, the, you know, even Bloomberg, it’s, it’s so, it’s almost taboo. Like, it’s one of the few taboos in the world is silver.

And, and it’s, it’s, it’s amazing when you watch the media how the, how they, they don’t cover it in a positive way ever. You know, when it’s cheap, they don’t say it’s cheap, and when it goes up, they don’t say it’s gone up. It’s just, it’s always just expected. It’s dodgy, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s industrial, it’s volatile. It’s, you know, they’re always trying to put people off it, you know, but, but, but the end of the day, it comes back to what you’re saying, Chris, is it’s supply and demand will dictate everything and it will dictate the silver price as well.

And you know, the ratio in the Earth’s cluster ratio is, is geologically it’s 15 parts of silver to one part of gold. And I have no doubt in the next five, 10 years, we will get back to, to that ratio. More likely, I think in the next two, three, five years, I think we’ll get back to that ratio. And we were at that ratio. You mentioned 1980 and you mentioned 2011. There are two key years, you know, and that’s where the ratio went in those, those years, you know, when we, when we got close to sort of fair value for gold and silver, it’s interesting, the gold silver ratio came back to 15 to 1.

So you know that gold that, gold that, who knows, 15,000, you’ll see silver, 1,000. And that sounds, as I say that it sounds like, you know, clickbait. So I don’t mean it as clickbait, I don’t mean as, you know, but I do think 15,000 gold is quite realistic in a 5, 10 year time frame. You know, if we think long term in this five, 10 years. Because this, I mean the debt is going up. It is $100,000 a second life, you know, I mean, people need to just stop and think about this $100,000 a second life.

It’s not a minute, you know, it’s not an hour, it’s a second. So you know, in 60 seconds you’re going up 6, $600,000, you know, so. And you know, when I got into this business in 2003, we were talking about millions were big numbers, you know, and then we went to billions were big numbers. And then we, we multiply that by a, another thousands. So we go from 6 digits to 9 digits to 12 digits. Trillion is a big, big number, you know, people no idea how big a trillion is, you know, and the trillion seconds, as many people in our industry try to explain it in terms of time because I think it’s only when you explain in terms of time that people understand it.

So the trillion seconds is nearly 30 or over 31,000 years, you know, so it’s like 29,000 BC, you know, so this is. And now we used to, they used to have to go and create the paper dollars and the paper euros and have the ink and print it. Now they just go on the keyboards and you know, I like the whole thing of control, like Ben Bernanke or what’s the lady in the treasury who had the sign fall off there last week. Janet. Yeah. Did you like that sign? Did you see that? I sure did. It’s falling off under the weight of the debt.

And I can oblige both of those fetishes you have there, Mark. In fact, I could give you a little Bernanke and, and we’ll get some Janet in here too. Show me some of them. Yeah, so that was, that was pure synchronicity. Like that was a sign from God. Whether you believe in God or you believe in the power of the universe, to me it’s the same thing. We have some big Janet yell at fan Yellen fans in our audience. I won’t call them out in their full first and last names right now, but I mean we have some fan members there.

Well, I’M surprised that because, yeah, she’s just, she’s just a bureaucrat, unfortunately. I think she’s a somewhat corrupt bureaucrat, you know, so. But I, I don’t like it in the personal things of name calling, you know, but she hasn’t in. When the history of these times are written, neither Bember, Nike or Johnny Yellen will come out looking very favorably. They, I think their policies will be frowned upon in quite a big way and they will be seen as quite corrupt and not looking after the interests of the, of the American people and of the American nation.

You know, they will be seen as looking after the interests of Wall street, in effect, you know, so. And joint corporations, giant banks over the interests of the people. So. But what was the point? I was making their own terms of. Oh, yes, so, so yeah, they just go on a keyboard, Janet Yellen or Ben Bernanke or whoever, the Powell, you know, or, you know, the bureaucrats in the treasury, and they control. I don’t know how they do it, but I like the thing up. They go on their computer, they go, Control alt P1 000000 000.

Is that, is that 12 zeros? So that’s 1 trillion. Boom. And that goes into the marketplace and they buy the bonds. And I mean it’s, it’s a Ponzi. It’s a classic Ponzi. There’s never been a more clear Ponzi in the history of mankind. And it’s a scale of the Ponzi which is just absolutely huge, you know, and they’ve gotten away with it. And this Ponzi would end in 2011, 2012. And I was clearly saying that and I was proven wrong. The central bankers proved themselves to be much more powerful than I ever thought they could be.

But you remember the expression we used to use. We said they kicked the cam down the road and that’s what they did. But we’re at the end of the road now. It was a longer road than any of us thought it would be. We’re at the end of that road now. And I genuinely think that we are in the final furlong of this monetary experiment, you know, and at any moment, the Chinese, the Russians, the bricks they can pull. No, sorry, not any moment. That’s a bit dramatic. But over a period of weeks or months, they could pull the, pull the plug on this, this Fiat dollar Ponzi, you know, which does not, you know, people think when I say that, oh, I’m anti American, I’m pro child about Russia Apart from it, I’m absolutely pro American, you know, but, but I worry that strategically, you know, that this creates a risk to us all.

In effect, it creates a risk to the entire Western world, you know, and we’re moving to a multipolar world one way or the other. But we do need to get our monetary houses, our fiscal housing in order, you know, because they are large creditor nations and we are large debtor nations and we cannot be a detonation and hope to be successful economically and to provide for our people, you know, for our children and children’s children. And that’s what we need to be having conversation about what is in our interests in the long term, because everything seems to be done for short term.

Quarterly profits, almost quarterly benefits. You know, there’s no strategic long term vision being put forward by either of your candidates. Trump a little bit more than Harris, obviously, you know, so anyway, I’m getting political there. I don’t like that political, but it does, it, it does worry me because, you know, the, the, the, the lack of, the lack of any sort of real political debate or economic debate is quite frightening, you know, and the whole, even the whole election, they’re not even talking about basic economics. Like, you know, it’s all point scoring and name calling and it’s like kindergarten stuff.

I mean you, you wouldn’t expect, if you saw 10 year old kids in, in, in the school arguing like that, you’d be disappointed, like. But to see the, the leaders of the free world doing this, it’s just shocking. No, it really is. And it doesn’t bode well. But anyway, that’s my little rant over. Yeah, well, how fortunate that we have Janet hard at work on that. And actually, Mark, you said that no one is talking about that. Actually, that’s not true. Even Janet has mentioned that the debt load is reasonable, that it remains at this level.

Although of course there’s virtually no chance of that happening. And as I might add, we come up under two months now until the next debt ceiling debate. Are you able to see that there? I am, yeah. And that’s classic pure right there. I can read between the lines to see what she’s doing there. So that’s her way of saying she knows that crisis is coming. So she’s trying to basically get ahead of the curve and say when it does happen, she’ll say, well, I did, Warren, you know, but it’s like she did not. It’s. Yeah, she didn’t until the last minute.

Like, you know, the Titanic is going down you know, she’s, she’s, she’s telling people it’s too late and she, she’s put a hole in the Titanic, her policies, you know, meanwhile she’s trying to blame the, the Russians or you know, whatever bogey man door it is, you know. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s crazy, crazy, crazy stuff, but it is what’s driving it. I mean, we used to use the term perfect storm and I do think we’re on the verge of that perfect storm, you know, because, you know, the system itself is very, very vulnerable, you know, macroeconomically, monetarily and geopolitically, you know, and there are three big sort of fundamentals that you need to really analyze.

And when you look at those three through the prism of the macroeconomics, monetary, particularly monetary economics and the money and then the geopolitics, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not pretty, you know, and it bodes well for what we do. Unfortunately, it doesn’t bode well the world, but maybe it does fold well for the world in the medium, long term because it’s, it’s like a giant disgusting boil that we need to lance, you know, and, and just, just, just lance the boil and get on with it and then create the new, you know, so it’s going to be a bit of a rocky, rocky few months, a rocky year, two years, no doubt.

But we will come true though, no doubt about it. You know, people own personnel will come true better than most. Well, it, it, we’ll get, we’ll get the first stage of it this week. Of course, we have a Fed meeting on Thursday too, so we’ll see how it all progresses through there. And Mark, I appreciate you coming by, making some time to talk about the metals and the things that are going on and perhaps just in wrapping up, you can let folks know where they can find you. Yeah, it’s taracoins.com is the website and yeah, you can buy the coins from Monetary Metals Exchange, from Apnex, from Bullion by Post in UK and then from the distributors in Ireland.

And if you have any bullion dealers, I’m looking for distributors in the US in particular because that, that’s, that’s where people are supposed to, coins are resonating most with people in America. There’s something like 33 million people in the US who are Irish Americans. But it’s interesting, there’s people who are, have no connection with Ireland whatsoever and they just really like them. They have a feel of a sort of A sovereign coin. Even though they’re not legal tender, they’re bullion rounds. So they are 99.99 pure gold and silver. And yeah, they, they basically, yeah, they supposed to tell the story of Ireland and they tell the story of the Tree of Life.

And the Tree of Life is probably one of the most sacred symbols in the world and it’s in all the religious and all the spiritual traditions. So there, there’s a lot of energy and there’s good energy and good spirit in those coins and. And I think, yeah, people own them and yeah, they’re wowed by them actually. But a lot of people say they are the most beautiful not legal tender coins around the marketplace. So. So get a few for Christmas. Yeah, as I said you beforehand, Chris, I think they make beautiful, really beautiful gifts, you know, and why, why do people buy jewelry? Crazy markups.

People have no idea how much they’re being ripped off by Julian. Plus the sales tax in many countries, whereas these, there’s no sales tax. And they’re just beautiful gifts to give to people, you know, and give them to women, their life. The women love the Tree of Life in particular, you know, so beautiful gift to give your, your partner, your wife, your children, birthdays, Christmas, whatever it is, you know. So. So that’s it. Yeah. So thanks for having me on, Chris, and yeah, look forward to talking to you again in the coming weeks and months. Well, I appreciate that, Mark.

Again, people can find him at Terra Coins and yes, they are some beautiful coins and just in time for the holiday season. So Mark, thanks for making some time. We’ll have to catch up again soon. And you take good care of yourself, my friend. You too, Chris. Take care. All the best.
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