Peter Hammond Part 2: Taking the Gospel to Marxist Rebels and Islamic Jihadis | The David Knight Show
Summary
Transcript
Well, later that day, they came for me for interrogation. I’m dragged. They never let you walk. They dragged me down the hallway, a guard on each side, into, again another one of these interrogation rooms. It looked like a hardware store. And the man behind table said, I am the devil. And I said, you’re not the devil. He said, oh, I’m the devil. I’m not only a Marxist and a Leninist, I’m a Stalinist. I was trained in Czechoslovakia, so I responded, well, I’m a Christian. And he spent out. I hate christians. Let’s talk a little bit about your work as a missionary.
What is happening in Africa, mainly after you get out of South Africa and I guess Zimbabwe, where the Marxists are. The rest of Africa is really kind of under the thumb of Islam, isn’t it? Where am I wrong? Well, Islam controls one third of Africa. The north, about 40% of population of Africa are in muslim majority countries. And the top seven countries in Africa are arabic speaking and islamic majority. Egypt, Algeria, all those countries. Libya and so on. Mali, Mauritania, these are muslim countries. Somalia, 99% muslim, and so on. Central Africa has got quite a lot of communist activity, worst in Zimbabwe, but we’ve got other communist hellholds as well.
And that’s what started our mission. When I was in the south african army, I had a Bible study groups that met every night for Bible study and prayer. And we had all night prayer meetings and prayed our way through Operation Ward. And we saw the tremendous threat to us of communism and terrorism. And so the vision came to be very clearly, the communists are coming to us with hate and with bombs. Have we ever gone to them with the gospel of Christ, with bibles, and with the love of Christ? And surely the best form of defense is attack and enemies coming to plant bombs in our roads and to kill our people.
Surely we should be going to undermine them with the gospel and with evangelism and turn many of their people into Bible believing evangelical christians. And so frontline friendship was born out of that vision. And for the last 42 years, I’ve been leading missions all over Africa, especially into communist countries and later muslim countries, to evangelize. And we took a high priority to evangelizing the anti communist guerrillas, the like Unita freedom fighters of Jonas in Angola and the Ronoma anti communist resistance movements in Mozambique. And if you just think of how America fought in Vietnam and you left many years ago, 1975, but you left behind the Montanards, well trained by the Green berets, who continued to resist the communists in Vietnam and Cambodia, for decades to come.
And so I see. If you think of the goal of special forces, you work behind enemy lines, and then you not only work behind enemy lines, but you leave behind special forces who will continue to fight the enemy, many of whom are ex communists themselves. So I took a high priority to training Unita freedom fighters and Ranamo anti communist guerrillas in the gospel, training chaplains and, and leaving them with chaplains handbooks and Bibles and evangelism, Jesus film outreaches and so on. And these people continue to stay and to fight against communists when we come home. And so we’ve got anti communist resistance.
We’ve been strengthened by the gospel all over Africa. In Sudan, I found the SPLA, the Sudanese People’s Liberation army, with a marxist background, and we turned the whole revolutionary movement of the Sudanese People’s Liberation army into a christian movement. They got through the commissars, they brought in chaplains. We just read Bibles, we did evangelism, and right up to the top people, their leaders, we convinced them that the best thing was to make peace with God, to make peace for the christian population of the nation, and to stop fighting God and rather to submit to God. And that’ll be the best way to get freedom for their country.
And for so successful that South Sudan is now a free and independent country, has seceded successfully from Arabic Islamic Sudan, seceded from the Sharia law. 9 July 20. Eleven. South Sudan became the youngest country in the world. And that’s just one of our success stories. Mozambique, which was a communist country where we had to smuggle in bibles in 1982 when I started our work. Today it’s open for the gospel. It’s easy to start a christian school, church, very little red tape. And the government’s even given back hundreds of churches that they’d confiscated and closed back to the church and schools.
And so we’ve seen tremendous success. Angola, which used to be a communist country, banned the Bible, burned churches today, wide open for the gospel. So our mission seen, and of course, the greatest success of all you could say is Eastern Europe, which had once been communist satellites of the Soviet Union. We smuggled in Bibles, we did radio broadcast, we did leadership training, underground leadership training courses like the School of the Prophets, which grew into being the biggest christian university in Europe, Emmanuel University in Eradia in Romania now. And that started as an illegal night school during the communist persecution.
And these are just some of the examples of answers to prayer and the power of the gospel to transform lives. So right now we’ve got a whole program called the Gospel for guerrillas, tracts for terrorists. Transform terrorists into evangelists. Think of the persecuted church. Saul became the apostle missionary of the church, Paul. And so God can take enemies and turn them into his own evangelist. And there’s nothing like the zeal of a convert. And I was brought up in a secular family. And from the day I was converted, I’ve known. I’ve been called to missions, but to evangelize terrorists, and I’ve gone and I’ve preached to terrorists.
I’ve been the basis of evangelized Muslims who were terrorists, evangelized communists who were terrorists. And I’ve seen some of them won over where now they are evangelists. And instead of whipping up more wars and sending in the marines, I think we should be sending in the missionaries. Instead of bombing the people, I think we should bombard them with Bibles and with prayer. And I believe there’s no political solution to a crisis in the Middle East. I believe any solution is spiritual. We need to get into the Middle east and evangelize them. So amongst the examples you can find, there’s a book out called Son of Hamas where the son of the founder of Hamas is actually speaking out against Hamas.
If you’ve seen the books of Mark Gabriel, Mark Gabriel was an egyptian Arab Muslim who was a son of an imam who was teaching as a professor in Kara University. He was trained to people in Islam, islamic history, and the Quran. And through the witness, the faithful witness of a coptic christian pharmacist, he came to Christ and he was arrested. He was tortured by the police in Egypt for being a convert, an apostate from Islam. In other words, he fled overland all the way to South Africa, got more training in South Africa. I think he now lives in Canada.
And Mark Gabriel has written books comparing Muhammad with Jesus, comparing Christianity with Islam, and helping people to understand the mind of islamic terrorists. And now there’s an example of how it’s better to transform a person from being a terrorist or someone who supports terrorism, or is the ideology behind it to being an evangelist? In Rhodesia, where I grew up, there’s a man, Nabazingi Musa, who’s now Pastor Nabuzingi Musa. He was a zombie terrorist. Zimbabwe African People’s Union, soviet training. And he was sent to assassinate an evangelist in Harari township outside Salisbury during the war. And he never gave the order because he got so entranced in what the evangelist was saying.
I was told, when you preach, you should preach like your life, depend on it, like you’re a dying man. Like this would be the last time you preach or the last time your hearers will hear you. Well, that evangelist saved his life by preaching so well that Musa didn’t give the order for attack. And his men came to him afterwards confused, and he said, go home, I’ll speak to you later. And then he went to the evangelist, gave his life to the Lord, and he went into theological training. He became a pastor. I was having supper with him one time and we were in a buffet at a hotel and I said, you know, you’ve passed the meat.
Don’t you want to get any meat? And he said, no, it reminds me too much when I used to eat people. Oh, I mean, I was having, I was having supper with a cannibal and. But, you know, now he’s an abstinent cannibal and quite an extraordinary experience. I know so many people like this. Yeah, God can change anybody. I love what you’re saying because I keep saying to people, you know, we’re not going to have reform in this country unless we get right with God. And that really is the path you want to have asymmetric warfare.
And the church is called not to be on defense, but to be on offense. I love that. Let me ask you, you said you met with a group of terrorists. How would you get into that group of terrorists? It was just somebody that introduced you and brought you in. How did you get into this group to evangelize it? Well, let me give you my first example. Back in 1982, I bought my motorbike as left South Konami off road motorbike loads up with world mystery press gospel booklets, got the Jesus form and I rode into Maputu and I stood in the street corner saying, hello, hello, hello.
And after a while somebody said, hello back. And I turned, I said, are you a Christian? He said, hallelujah. And I said, praise the Lord. And he said, hallelujah. And he stood there so excited and he said, do you have a place to stay? You must stay in my room tonight. Well, we had no plan. This is our accommodation. Do you have a translator? I speak ronga tonga, Tsoir and Shangon Portuguese fluently. You’ve got the job. And the next day he gathered together a whole lot of underground church people in a. And we talked about hundreds of people in a burned out, bombed out church.
Communist slogans on the walls, bullet holes on the walls, blood on the floor, place being stripped and just a few wires hanging out of the walls where there used to be plugs. And I had an evangelistic rally with them there 14 hours service just carried on on. The people just so excited. You the first visitor we’ve had since the revolution. And then I’d have the Jesus fall. Now, interestingly, just that first time, to show you how bizarre everything was, I told him I brought the Jesus fall. And people got so excited about that. And then I said, do you know where I can borrow a projector? And they all got deflated.
Like, is he out of his mind? He comes to Mozambique, he doesn’t have a projector. How’s he going to show the film? Well, afterwards a man came up to you and said, I work at the british embassy. They’ve got a projector. Come to the corner of Vladimir Lenin and Mao Zedong street tomorrow and I’ll introduce you to. Yeah, seriously, to the consulate. And so I went to consulate, explained, I’m british citizen because my father fought Auk six years of the second world war, royal artillery and 8th army. I have a british passport, even though I’ve never lived in Britain.
So I showed them my british passport and said, may I borrow your 16 millimeter projector? I’m a british missionary work in Mozambique. I bought a film, but I don’t have a projector. I couldn’t afford a projector back then. Actually, I’d just come out. The army put all my money into getting the film and getting the bibles we needed, so I couldn’t afford a projector. So talk about a faith mission. And the consular said, you’re welcome to borrow my projector, but he said, I need to warn you, there’s power failures most of the time. We only get electricity about once a week.
Wow. I said, well, we’ll have to pray about that. So I set up in the church, and I’ve got to take the plug off with a Phillips screwdriver and then twist the wires together, trying not to electrocute myself, which isn’t difficult because there’s no power, and then pray for the lights to come on. Well, that night, that first night, believe it or not, the power came on so I could show the Jesus form. And just as we in the crucifixion scene, the power goes off. One thought, that’s not bad. They’ve got most of the film. I saw them, I preached, and as I was preaching on the cross of Christ, the lights come back on, so I’m able to continue.
We finished the resurrection scene, great commission, and then the film was over. I could preach some more. And while I’m preaching in a pitch dark, I see soldiers and camouflage coming to the front carrying the AK forty seven s. And I thought, I’m about to get arrested. No, they knelt on the floor, they put the AK 47s on the ground. They knelt down and they said, we want to give our lives to Christ. And I was able to lead communists to Christ on my first mission to Mozambique. I’ve baptized communists. I’ve had Bible studies. Now some of them will invite you to come to the next place, or I’d have.
Can you show the form of our camp? I’d go to a camp and I’d crank up the generator. And when we were a bit more organized later, we actually brought our own generators along and we could show the Jesus form in the communist camps. I’ve shown the Jesus form in camps of communists in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola. Absolutely. Magnificent, even to Arabs in Sudan. I was driving in Harare in the embassy lane, and I saw an embassy to the Palestinian Liberation Organization. So I quickly stopped and turned into the embassy. And I asked you to speak to the head of the PLO there in Harare.
So this is like a terrorist training camp in an embassy, what used to be an embassy, and now it’s an embassy for the PLO terrorists in Harare. And, you know, I got in there and I started to. I said, I’m a theological student, at which at that stage I was. And I’m interested in learning about Islam, which is also true because I’ve specialized in Islam. And so we sat down, they start to explain Islam. And they were saying, but Islam isn’t the only motivational PLO. The PLO has christians as well. And anyway, I found it hard to believe, but in talking to them and they were saying, you know, we believe in full religious freedom.
I said, I’m so glad to hear that. I’ve got the Jesus form. Can I show it to you? And this chap looks a bit like what I say wrong. And we went out there and we showed the film and these, you could see some of the Muslims were quite agitated, but, you know, they just proclaimed the religious freedom. And so, okay, I didn’t get a second chance, but I did get away with it that time and things like this. There’s a time I was preaching to a group of, I call them gooks, the Zimbabwe National army, on an observation post overlooking Mutari in the eastern hans of Zimbabwe.
And on the way out, we were intercepted. Somebody had complained that I was preaching. And on the way down, the CIO, central intelligence organization, they’re like the KGB of Zimbabwe. They blocked the road, they caught us, ambushed us, and I was taken off to interrogation. And when I say interrogation, I mean took into a room that looked like a hardware store table full of all kinds of pliers and other tools, and sat in an armchair which had leather straps for the arms and for the feet. And there’s a battery in the corner with crocodile clips and wires.
So, you know, the only way you’re going to be charged is with electricity. And they’re not depending on Zimbabwe electricity. They’ve got their own battery there. And, I mean, it’s literally shocking. So I’m sitting down there and they said, what are you teaching? I’m in. So I start to relate the gospel. No, no, no, stop. Why have you come, Zimbabwe? So I related my testimony and I tell you, these men start to shuffle, scratch the back of the heads, shuffle their feet, and look at the fingernails and getting awkward. And the one man said, my mother’s very religious.
No one said, my sister’s religious. And before you knew it, the whole atmosphere changed. I’m talking about these bloodthirsty, callous torturers, the co. They came at a conviction of sin. Wow. And, you know, in a time like that, you really feel unctioned from on high to preach like you’ve never preached before because your life literally and your fingernails depends on it. So I proclaimed the gospel to him. And literally, within the hour, I was driving out of the driveway, giving back my vehicle and keys, and these men are standing with their barbells and Shauna under their arms waving goodbye.
And that actually happened. And in fact, I’ve written a whole book on this sort of thing. Frontline behind me, lines for Christ on our 42 years of ventrue. These are just some of the evangelisms amongst terrorists. Over 440 pictures. I’ve got opportunities to preach to communists, terrorists, revolutionaries, militants, radicals, rioters. We’ve had times when people have been shaking boxes, matches in our faces, saying, I’m going to necklace you, we’re going to burn you alive, and things like this. But we have persevered and God’s given grace, wisdom, strength. I’m convinced missionaries can do far more for the security of our nations by evangelizing enemies than we can by going there, bombing them and radicalizing more people and winning them more recruits.
Oh, I absolutely agree. I love what you’re doing. And what it reminds me of is that certainly in your life you are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I think that is the biggest problem of the american church. People have been so browbeat about all this. Oh, we got to be nice to everybody. We have to meet them where they are and all the rest of this stuff. No, you just need to tell the truth, and you need to say it. Not in a mean way, necessarily, but you just simply declare the truth. And that is the key thing.
And that’s what Americans are afraid to do to the man. They don’t. They’ve been shamed into silence. We’ve been shamed into the closet. While every kind of perversity is parading in the street here in the middle of pride month, we are shamed to say anything about that, and not necessarily in a condemning way, but, you know, to put out the gospel of Christ and sometimes call sin what it is. And that’s what. What you have done, is to give people the gospel, to give them a hope in an area where they have no hope. For all these guys who are terrorists, all these guys who are torturing people.
I mean, it’s just for them. How are they going to know that tomorrow they wont be the ones that are sitting in the chair and having their fingernails pulled out? In fact, I point this out, Ive designed a whole track specifically for terrorists, pointing out that every revolution is cannibalistic. They end up killing their own. And just think of who is the hero of the revolution in Soviet Union, Leon Trotsky. And he literally got axed by otter strong. He got an ice pick in the head. Hes buried in Mexico City. And this is what happens. Like an animal farm snowball.
The hero of the revolutionary gets killed by the dogs who sit on him, by Napoleon. And this is the way it goes in Zimbabwe. The leader of the revolution, Josiah Tongaro, the head of the Zimbabwe African Union Liberation army, he gets murdered on Christmas Eve in Zimbabwe and opens the door to Mugabe becoming the first leader of Zimbabwe. And in South Africa, the leader of the communist party was Chris Horney, who gets murdered just the year before to enable not just Mandela to become president, because Chris Horney was very charismatic, a good speaker. Ive debated him in public, too.
But to allow Thabombeki and Jacob Zuma to become the first successors to Mandela, Chris, honey would have been a shoe. And he is so liked, so charismatic. And he was the most powerful man, being the head of the communist party, head of the, um, Kuntui Sizwi, which is the armed wing, the terrorist wing of the ANC. And so his assassination, which many in the ANC, including winning Mandela, say was an inside job done by the ANC to get rid of him because he’s too popular. Eduardo Manlani, was the founder of the Falima Communist party in Mozambique.
The main street in Mapuche is named the Edmondo Mulany Avenue Boulevard. Well, he was murdered so that Samora Michel could take his place. And so it carries on every revolution. You can see the revolutions are cannibalistic. Do you know that Mao Tsing, in 1960 819 66 began the cultural revolution by arresting the president of Red China and the head of the army? They were Troika. He was the chairman. There was the president. And the head of the army of the Red China were accused of treason. I mean, how is that even possible? And Mao Zhiqiang seizes power and eliminates millions of people.
And this is typical of communists. The second phase of the revolution, they always end up killing the revolutionaries. Like Stalin show trials. He killed off the veterans of the bolshevik revolution. You see, people who do a revolution cannot be trusted, because when you fail to fulfill your promises, they know how to overthrow a government. They can overthrow you. So the first people to get in the neck, literally is the vanguard of the revolution. The vanguard of the revolution gets slaughtered in the second phase of the revolution. So I share these facts with the communists. And when they realize that, they start to understand, like moist Trombe of Congo as well, you know, he gets wiped out.
The communists had a university training terrorist in Moscow called the moist. Patrice Lumumba University. Patrice Lumumba was the leader of the communist revolution, and he was murdered by his own in the Congo. And this is absolutely typical. When the people realize, you realize they’re just using you like a pawn, and you’re going to be sacrificed for the good of the revolution. Soon you start to get them realizing you know it’s true. And when they understand the history and understand where this is going, many of these people are willing to turn. And many ex communists have ended up being the best anti communists.
And they’ve been the best fighters in Renorma, the anti communist resistance in Mozambique, or the unita anti communist resistance in Angola. And so it is when people understand how communists work, they get to realize they’re going to shoot me in the back of the neck as well. Yes, I’ve got to get out now and be part of the resistance, because if I stay, my days are numbered. And so there are ways to persuade the communists. And when they get to understand that, you understand history, that also helps. I’ve had this before. When I was arrested in Mozambique, 1989.
I was thrown in prison there. And quite an experience. There was a Machava security prison, Maputu and I wake up to a horrible smell. And I feel something on my face. And I’m lying on a concrete floor and there’s a rat just about to stop doubling. My nose smelled like he’s coming from the sewers, which he had, I’m sure, and there was a hole under the door that rats could get in and out. And so right there, I knew what I was in. Well, later that day, they came for me for interrogation. I’m dragged. They never let you walk.
They dragged me down the hallway, a guard on each side, into, again, another one of these interrogation rooms. It looked like a hardware store. And the man behind the table said, I am the devil. I said, you’re not the devil. And he says, oh, I’m the devil. I’m not only a Marxist and a Leninist, I’m a Stalinist. I was trained in Czech Slimokia. So I responded, well, I’m a Christian. And he spat out, I hate christians, but I mean, he spat it out with such venom. And how do you respond to that? Well, he then started to berate me for the evils of communism, of evils of Christianity.
And then he said, you know, Jesus Christ was the first communist. Jesus Christ talked from all according to his ability, to each according to his need. So you saw that Jesus Christ, that sounds like Karl Marx. Where in the Bible do you get this? And then he carried on with, no, the first christians were the first communists. In fact, anyone who refused to share their property was killed. And we are just enforcing what you read in the Book of Acts, he says. So I said, well, if you read the book of acts, you see a niacin were not killed by the apostles.
They were struck dead by God himself. No human hand touched them because they lied to the Holy Spirit. And it was not that they weren’t willing to share their property, it was that they lied and that they’d not lied, just a man that lied to God, to the Holy Spirit. And anyway, I then went on and said, if Jesus Christ was the first communist, and if the early church practiced communism, why do you ban Bibles? Why is it that after I smuggle Bibles and why do Bibles get burned? If this was true, you’d want to promote bibles.
And the man started to give me a lecture on how evil capitalism was, and he gave a tirade against Margaret Thatcher, who was prime minister in Britain at that stage. So I then gave a lecture about the french revolution and explaining how secular humanism, Robespierre and Voltaire, how they brought about a collapse of good standards for the poor and how the poor always benefits from Christianity. And now the poor get poorer and are more oppressed under communism. And then the man gave me a lecture on dialectic materialism. And so I gave him. I thought, I can swap lectures all day.
I love history. Much better than getting your fingernails ripped out and being electrocuted. I gave him a lecture on the reformation. We went backwards and forwards about these things and at the end he declared the interview over. Been 6 hours. Look at the clock on the wall. It just shows if you know your history, you can engage communists. And communists love arguing politics and history and economics. So when you know that it’s much better, you’ll keep your fingernails, you’ll keep your. I’m much happier to debate the communists and they’re normally happy to debate, but if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, they’ll start torturing.
I mean, seriously, that’s what happens. Wow. What about when you go to Islam? How does it. You described your situation with the communists and how they like to debate history, politics and maybe even religion. What about Islam when you’ve had encounters there? Well, Islam loves discussing religion. So again, you’ve got to know the Quran. And I learned the quran not only from christians who worked amongst Muslims. I went into the mosques and I asked the Muslims to train me. I went to islamic propagation sent and had them explain the Quran. And the first day I didn’t even ask any questions except to clarify things.
And I learned a muslim perspective in Islam, which is different from a christian like me explaining Islam to you. And so that was very helpful. So I first made sure I understood Islam pretty well. Then I went with a very experienced man, Ekharit Niels, on door to door evangelism and muslim areas. He taught me how to reach Muslims well. And so what I’ve done is sometimes gone into mosques and asked the imam if we could have a debate on Islam and Christianity, or comparing Jesus, Muhammad or the Quran, the Bible, or how can we know that our sins are forgiven? How are your sins forgiven in Islam? How can you be wrong to God? How can you know you’re going to paradise? And we discuss things like this, that sometimes one discuss, was Jesus crucified? Did Jesus rise from dead? Those are good debating subjects.
So debates and discussions always help meeting people in homes. They’re willing to let you in. Normally I can go to the malay quarter where it’s 100% muslim and mosques all over the place, and you come and knock on the door. I’d like to talk to you about, I’m a Christian. I’d like to talk to you about Islam and Christianity. Would you be interested in discussion? They often invite you in, give you tea, coffee, sit down and have a discussion. We’ve even organized Bible studies in mosques where we come and we say, okay, what does the Quran teach about this subject? And they’ll explain what the Quran teaches in that subject, and then we’ll explain what the Bible says about that subject.
Then they’ll explain what the Quran says about another subject. And so you’ve got basically it’s an objective, constructive discussion. This is to understand one another. You tell me what the Quran teaches on sin, man, God, heaven, hell, salvation, so on. I’ll tell you what the Bible does and interesting discussions come out of it. And we’ve had people coming to us saying, you know, I’m from Saudi Arabia, this is illegal in Saudi Arabia. And they so excited when you give them a Bible and they’re like, can I have this? You know, this is illegal in my country.
And they’ve got all the excitement of someone who’s been given something that’s suppressed and illegal. And I find the more from a hardcore muslim country that come, the more open to the gospel when another country, obviously in their own country, they wouldn’t be able to do that. And so we have debates, we have discussions, and we meet people in their homes. And if as long as you can talk intelligently and it’s obviously understand Islam, we can get quite far. And I’ve got friends who used to be Muslims who’ve been converted to Christ, and it’s wonderful. And people from Pakistan, people from Iraq, people from Syria, people from Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
We’ve got a whole Bible college going up in northern Africa in an arabic speaking north african country, which is part of our William Carey Bible Institute. And we’ve got 13 students who came from a muslim background, what we call a muslim background believer, or MBB. And it’s just wonderful. We had, a while ago when we had six graduates, finished the three year program, and we had a graduation service was totally illegal, underground and secret, but we were able to, through web platforms, able to have me still give a presentation at the graduation service remotely. And these people came from unreached people where it’s totally illegal.
And this was all done in a country where this would be completely illegal. Muslims are coming to Christ. And it’s exciting. I guess that’s the thing that surprises me, is that you would be able, because is it different parts of Islam? Because we look at it as monolithic. But of course you got the Shia and you got the hobbyists and the Sunnis and all the rest of this stuff, there’s a lot of different flavors of that. Is that why? And some of these, now you mentioned that you’re still having to do some things underground. But I guess in some of these areas maybe that’s why the imam would be open to debate.
Or is it just because they are somebody that’s from another country and they’re not being watched or it’s all of those things. And so what you find is a muslim imam wants to win a christian to Islam and so this would be a great status symbol if he could persuade me to become Muslim. Now he’s convinced Islam is right. I know that Christianity is right, but the fact that we’re willing to and we say okay, let’s make this even. You know, you explain what the Quran says, I’ll explain what the Bible says. Now he’s convinced he’s going to win you over.
So his goal is to evangelize me for Islam, Dawah. And my goal is to share the gospel with him. And we know that actually ultimately it’s not a decision. This is something the Lord does. And there’s some good tools. One of them is more than dreams and more than dreams has five Muslims conversions, true stories done in a recreated film method showing actual testimonies of Muslims, how they came to Christ. I’ve got some booklets as well as how people came to Christ from Islam. And if you go to the people in a way of them being interested in a discussion and hopefully when you use Islam, that’s why I often portray myself as I’m a theological student and I’m a student of Islam.
I’m interested in learning about Islam. Would you help answer my questions? And of course many of my questions are going to cause doubts in their mind too. Like how do you prepare your heart for prayer? And they happily tell you how they wash their hands and their ears and their nose and they clean their feet and so on and yes, but how do you clean your heart? I find very hard to prepare my how do you wash your mind? And they get confused and you ask questions such as what can you tell me to convince me that the Quran is the word of God and it’s because Muhammad said it is.
And how do I know that Muhammad is a true prophet of God? Well, because the Quran says yes. Well isn’t it circular reason? I mean how can I know the Quran is the word of God? And are there any prophecies in the Quran about events far ahead? Tell them about some of the prophecies in the Bible. And then I’ve spoken to some of the top muslim evangelists in the world or debaters like Ahmadidat who was. He’s written as scores of books, printed millions of copies. He’s the founder of islamic propagation Center Nationalists. Ahmadidat debating him and he’s filming this at the same time.
Sir, what prophecies are in the Quran? Well Muhammad prophesied that the roman empire would fall. But the roman empire fell before Mohammed was born. That’s called history. That’s not prophecy. And what miracles did muhammad do? And well let me go back to the first question. How do I know that Muhammad is a prophet of God? Dead serious. This is his answer. He had a gap between his front teeth and he had a mole. And this apparently I think the mole was on his back actually. So you know some dermalogical problem and some dental problem and that proves he’s a prophet of God.
But seriously that’s what he gave. Was there any miracles that Muhammad did or any prophecies he gave? Well in fact there was according to Ahmadine. I mean remember he’s the top islamic author. He’s the founder of the Islamic Propagations International. When Muhammad was fleeing the soldiers of Mecca he hid in a cave and a spider spun a web over the cave mouth. And when the soldiers came past they said well he can’t be in there. And they went on, I said that’s it. Spider’s web. I mean that’s the strongest you’ve got. And I mean that’s the answer he gave.
Well of course I could say a lot more about how Jesus from the Quran, the Quran knowledge was Jesus was born a virgin. He is holy, sinless, perfect, he is the word of God. Here’s the messiah. The Quran says this like a quote. Chapter and verse on the shore is about that. And Jesus has ascended into heaven. He’s coming down to judge the living and dead. What other prophets can you say this off? And just comparing Jesus with any other prophet already convinces. So we lay some foundations like this and discussions and I make it sound easy but of course it’s hard because there’s interruptions and they always want to say what they want to say before they listen to you.
So you’ve got to listen to them first. Ask questions. But I find asking probing questions do help. How can you know for sure that you’re going to paradise? Well of course there’s only one way a Muslim can know for sure that he’s going to paradise if he dies in jihad, killing the infidel. But they can’t say that to you. I mean Muhammad himself said he didn’t know what Allah would do with him on day of judgment. So ask him, how can you know for sure that you’ll enter into paradise? And I don’t know, how can Allah forgive your sins? And you know the answer got from Ahmadinez three times.
He rose to his shoulders and his arms, hands up straight. And of course as you mentioned, they’ll say that Jesus was virgin birth, the prophet of God, a messiah. All the rest is coming back. And yet they deny the cross, right? And so they deny payment for sin. So you know, how do they respond with that issue? With their arms up? Well they deny the crucifixion of Christ based on an interpretation of one Sora. There’s one verse that says that Nabi Isa was not crucified although it was made to appear so to them. Now that’s just one Sora written by somebody who was not an eyewitness hundreds of years later.
And yet there’s so many surahs in the Quran that authenticate that the Bible is the word of God. And that you mustn’t dispute to the people of the book. And that the words of Allah cannot be lost or changed or corrupted. Allah’s words endure forever. So on this basis I’m able to make a strong case that the Quran claims to be built on the Bible. The Quran claims to be an authentication and a confirmation of the Bible. And Muhammad claims to be the last prophet. And he’s confirming what all the other prophets said including Nabi Isa, the prophet Jesus.
So they’re on the end of a branch and they can’t saw off the branch on the inside without themselves falling out. The Bible does not depend on the Quran. But the Quran does depend on the Bible. We need to build on that. Because the Muslim cannot deny Jesus. He is a prophet of Islam. They must respect him. In fact when they say Nabi isa they must add peace be upon him like they do about Muhammad. They might forget but we can remind them because he is illustrious in this world and in the hereafter. And he is a sign for the nations.
For all nations. Ahmad eat would like to say well Jesus was a prophet to the Jews but Muhammad is a prophet to all nations. But the Quran states that Jesus is a sign to all the nations. And so they cannot actually deny Jesus. Even just knowing the Quran is enough to make them see that Jesus or Nabi Isa as they call him, the prophet. Jesus is not to be compared with any other and he is perfect. Now even using the Quran I can lead them to points of seeing Jesus is more important than Muhammad. Do you know that Muhammad is mentioned four times in the Quran? Only four times.
Jesus by the name of Nabi Isa is mentioned over 80 times in the Quran. In fact Mary is mentioned vastly more times than Muhammad as well. And so already you can see from the Quran itself the importance of Jesus and his mother and that Muhammad is not a major emphasis of the Quran. Now you get more on Muhammad of course in the hadith. But the hadith is not as authenticated as the Quran. The Quran is Allah’s words to us according to them. And the hadith is the teachings and the actions of Muhammad mentioned by his followers.
So these are secondary to the Quran and we’ve gotten quite far with that. So I thought being white and western, I mean it’s kind of obvious my complexion gives me away that this would be a stumbling block to me, evangelizing. But actually it’s not. In many ways it creates interest. And I found even with the black people and with arab people, I’m a bit of an anomaly, a bit of a status symbol. They’ve got this foreigner, this guest and they like to invite me in. And one thing we find that always works with Muslims if you want to get an opening is can I pray for you? Is there anything that you need pray for? And you know, a person who said they know prayers to Muhammad haven’t healed anyone.
But many of them have great faith that Nabi Isa prophet Jesus, he can heal. I mean there’s no evidence anywhere that Muhammad healed anyone. But Jesus healed many people and they know that even from the Quran. Now when we come along we say can I pray for you? Whether it’s in a home or something, Muslims always come up with things that they need pray for. Now you pray and when the prayer is answered you can imagine how this really opens up people’s hearts and people’s children have been healed from sickness. People have experienced all kinds of answers to prayer in the name of Jesus and therefore that’s something, this is something you see in the frontiers of gospel work.
I wouldn’t advise this normally, but mark 16 speaks about when we work for God, he works along with us and he will confirm the word with signs following. And so remember every promise in the Bible, every command in the Bible comes with a promise. And so when the Lord says I’ll be with you always. It’s in the context of go into all the world, make disciples of all nations. And the Lord breathed in him and said, receive the Holy Spirit. You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria, and to Athens, pots, earth. When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, so the power is promised when we are fulfilling the great commission.
I’ve seen miraculous healings. And I was in Nuba, mountains of Sudan, when I got stung by a scorpion. It was a little luminous, almost colorless scorpion with massive tail and small clippers. Those are the most deadly. And my left hand was poisoned, stung by the scorpion. And I could feel a poison working up my arm, heading towards my heart. Wow. And there was nothing for it except to call for the elders to pray for me. So Christians and missionary co workers gathered around and prayed for me. And I felt the poison going down my arm and out through my fingertips.
And the local Muslims saw it and they saw the scorpion. You know, he is stung by the scorpion, and that’s a deadly scorpion, not the dark scorpions with a big clippers and a small tail. This is the light colored scorpions, almost transparent scorpions with a big tail. They’re the deadly ones. And they could see what the Bible says that, you know, they’ll be stung by scorpions and bit by snakes and it will not harm them. Well, we don’t believe in doing this on a stage. We’re not like those cults might play with snakes and things like this, but in the actual course of God’s work, and these things happen, the Lord has promised to intervene.
And so in ministry, in the frontiers of missions, amongst unrest, people’s groups, I’ve seen answers to prayer. So I’m not a science and wonders person. I believe the Bible is our authority, totally. But miracles happen in pioneer missions. Oh, yeah, I’ve heard that many times. I’m not a signs of miracles person either. But yes, I’ve heard many, many reports of that. As you said on the frontline missions, it truly is amazing. I could go on forever with you. We’re going to split this into two different, two different interviews here. Tell people where they can find out about what you’re doing at frontline missions sa.org.
and is that the best place for them to find? You’ve got so many different websites, I think you got like ten of them here. We’ll put them in. The best one is frontline mission essay.org dot frontlinemission sarc. On the back of our book, Frontline Mission SA short for select access missions, it’s frontline missions sa.org, and you’ll find us on Facebook as well. Frontline fellowship with the badge, the sort the word in Africa. You can see the sort the word in Africa up above me. That’s our missions badge, one of the shields on the wall. And we’ve been going 42 years.
You can email me@peterrontline.org dot za peterrontline.org dot ca. That’s my personal email. And you also see I’m busy on Facebook as well. We’ve got a bookshop. We provide a lot of our books by email. We’ve got ebooks, we’ve got print on demand. So even if our postal service isn’t behaving itself, we’ve still got ways of getting the materials to people. We send out emails, we send out audio visuals. On the frontlinemission SA website, there’s audio visuals, presentations, transforming terrorists into evangelists. We’ve got on how to resist marxist bullying tactics, exposing the whole cancel culture movement, which is nothing but cancel Christianity.
That’s the whole goal of cancel culture, is communism, and its goal is to cancel Christianity. That’s the only thing that makes sense to the whole agenda. And of course, I’ve lived through several revolutions. So I’ve worked in 38 countries, I’ve traveled in 42 countries. I’ve worked in 38 countries, including eight wars. I’ve gone through three revolutions, been imprisoned multiple times in communist countries, and arrested in muslim countries as well. And I’ve got the stories in my book frontline behind Enemy alliance for Christ. We’ve got audio visuals on our websites and articles on many of these issues that we’re dealing with, videos that people can see.
I helped to produce Sudan, hidden Holocaust and terrorism and persecution films which expose a lot of what is going on in the field. And you can see videos on our website that even show some of the imprisonments and some of the announcements of on the news, broadcast about our imprisonments and test news of some of the combat that we’re involved in at first. So that’s all available on the frontlinemissionessa.org website. I’d love to hear from some of the listeners and viewers. Yes, I’m sorry, what? We always need workers, we need volunteers. And if people are interested in in short term ministry or long term ministry and would like to come and volunteer the time, we have training programs here, like the great commission course, enable people to learn muslim evangelism firsthand in a peaceful area like Cape Town, where it’s legal before we attempt to send anyone out about.
But we’re in a port city that’s cosmopolitan and people can practice evangelism here. So we use Cape Town as our training base for the great commission course. Have the people hiking up and down Table Mountain and getting fit. Night hikes, Barbell smuggling drills in the forest at night. We’ve got hunter teams and we’ve got smuggling teams. And if people are interested in ministering in restricted access areas, we’ve got the experience of 42 years. And we’d love to train more people because I believe this is the way we will fulfill the great commission and we’ll defeat many of the enemies is by getting into these areas and winning these people to cross.
And many are wide open and hungry and disillusioned. And the gospel is powerful. In fact, as I heard in Sudan, a man said after he got bombed, the Bibles of the Christians are more powerful than the bombs of the Muslims. And it’s true. Yes. That’s amazing. Now, let me just repeat one more thing. Your book that’s about your life experiences there. Front lines behind enemy. What was it? Frontline, behind enemy lines for Christ. Behind enemy lines for Christ. Yeah. This is also prints on the modern e book. Okay, good. That picture on the front says me in the Nuba mountains.
But you’ve got 440 pictures and it’s a very well illustrated book with ports of what’s going on in the field. So if people are interested, this will give them an insight into what goes on in these areas. And. Well, I’m definitely interested. I’m definitely interested. I’m going to have to. Yes. Thank you so much. It is fantastic talking to you again. A frontline mission and that’ll be kind of your entry point there. We’ll have some of these links in the videos when we put them up as well. So thank you so much for joining us. Doctor Peter Hammond.
I appreciate it. It’s been amazing to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. David Nott. Appreciate the opportunity. God bless America. Thank you. God bless you. Well, that’s it, folks. Thank you for joining us. Okay, that’s. I’ll put in the ending later on. You got that recorded? Okay, good. Thank you so much. That was amazing story. I let that run for the David Knight show is a critical thinking super spreader. If you’ve been exposed to logic by listening to the David Knight show, please do your part and try not to spread it. Financial support or simply telling others about the show causes this dangerous information to spread.
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