➡ Tom’s book, “Human Heart, Cosmic Heart,” challenges traditional ideas about the heart and blood circulation. He questions the common belief that our bodies are 70% water, as he never saw water come out of injured people, only blood. He also disputes the idea that the heart pumps blood, suggesting instead that blood movement starts in the capillaries due to a fourth phase of water, which he calls “gel water” or “structured water.” This water interacts with the capillaries, forming a gel that separates charges and starts the blood flowing.
➡ The heart works like a suction device, creating a vortex that moves blood around the body. A Spanish cardiologist discovered that the heart has two muscular systems that create these vortices. The common belief is that heart attacks are caused by blockages in the coronary arteries, which are thought to prevent blood and oxygen from reaching the heart. However, this theory is questioned as blockages are found in other arteries without causing ‘attacks’, and many heart attack victims don’t have blockages, suggesting other factors may be involved.
➡ Heart attacks aren’t caused by blocked arteries, but by a shift in how the heart gets energy, leading to a buildup of lactic acid. This causes pain and tissue breakdown, or a heart attack. Bypasses and stents don’t prevent heart attacks or increase lifespan. A healthy lifestyle, including good food, exercise, and a relaxed state of mind, can help prevent heart attacks. Strophanthus extract, a supplement that supports the heart’s energy and gets rid of lactic acid, can also help. Lastly, eating natural, unprocessed food that’s grown in good conditions can contribute to heart health.
➡ The text emphasizes the importance of choosing natural, unprocessed food for a healthy lifestyle. It questions the common belief about the composition of food and substances like water, suggesting they are not made of atoms but are simply what they are. It also challenges the idea that certain foods, like butter, cause health issues like heart attacks, pointing out that people consumed these foods in the past without such problems. The text concludes by recommending a diet of real, minimally processed food and limiting sweet items for better health.

Hi Tom. Thanks for this opportunity to talk to you about your groundbreaking book, Human Heart, Cosmic Heart. I have jumped at this opportunity to talk to you about your ideas and your understanding of the human heart and heart disease. In this interview I would ask you to cover the following topics, emphasizing your personal input into each circulation and structured media, geometry and purpose of the heart, what does and what does not cause heart attack, strophantos as preventive and remedial medicine and the last one, basic principles of the heart diet. Let’s start with blood circulation. And I would ask you to begin with a very important introduction to structured medium, including blood.

What is a structured medium, for example water, and why it is important for our system in general and for blood circulation in particular. We have a disconnect in our modern culture between what we’re told is the truth versus what we can see with our own eyes or experience with our own senses. And we’re continually being told that this thing called science has a better explanation than the things that you can actually sense and feel figure out for yourself. And for some reason I never, that never sat good well with me. If this doesn’t make any sense to me, then I’m not going with it.

So for instance, when we start with this question of, of what are the phases of water, right? So we’re told that water, like all substances, has three and only three phases. There are no intermediate phases. There’s solid, liquid and gas, right? Everybody knows that you get copper. Copper is solid copper, molten or liquid copper and gaseous copper. And water is ice water and steam. We’re told that like in first grade or something, six years old. So then, then we’re told that the human being and like all living things is 70% water. So that means we got water sloshing around at us.

And so then I thought, okay, what phase is the water in? Right, because there’s only three. Well, it’s not ice, right, because that’s ridiculous. It’s not steam. You know, we’re not walking around with steam in us. So it’s got to be liquid water, which is what we’re told. So then I become a doctor and then eventually worked as an emergency room doctor. And I saw people shot and bayoneted and cut and all kinds of things. And so you would expect to find water, which is 70% of us squirting out of cut open people. And to my interest, obviously I knew this wasn’t the case.

Nobody had a puddle of water on the floor after they were shot or sliced with a knife. They had blood, which was a kind of a liquid, but we’re told that the cells are water, like intracellular water, not blood. So you would think there would be water, but there wasn’t. And so that got me starting thinking there’s something not right here, because what I’m told doesn’t square with what I can experience. And everybody else, it’s not just me hallucinating that everybody else didn’t see a puddle of water either. So there’s something wrong here. So then I go on and I start, you know, finding other examples, like Jello.

So I made jello, and I made bone broth, which is gelatinous. And jello is, we’re told, 97 or so percent water. And then there’s some proteins in it. And everybody’s seen Jello. And I thought, okay, what phase is the Jello water in that? Jello is. It’s not ice, it’s not water, and it’s not steam. So something is wrong. And besides, it was only water. You don’t see this. You can’t make copper. Jello doesn’t. Doesn’t work. So eventually then I ran into the work of a guy named Gerald Pollock, who was documenting that there is a. A fourth phase of water, which he calls easy water, or exclusion zone water.

You can measure. You can measure the ph, you can measure the voltage in it, you can measure how thick it is. You could measure the bond angles of the water. You can actually measure it, just like you can measure a piece of paper or something. And so it was very clear that to me that all of the water in us, besides like urine and blood, is in this gelatinous or structured or easy or fourth phase, or some people call it coherent phase. And in fact, that is the fundamentals of life. And in fact, I would go so far as to say we know that there’s a disease or a imbalance or a sickness.

Like your knee has this structured water, you know, that’s called cartilage and it’s called bursas. And if the. If the water turns to liquid water, then you have a swollen knee. And what happened? Your gel liquefied or if it hardens, that’s not good either. That started me in a whole different way of thinking about disease. And then I found out through experiments that you could take a beaker of water and you suspend a horizontal protein tube in it that’s hydrophilic, meaning it interacts with water. And then what you find is that it forms this gel water on the inner surface of the tube.

And that’s easy to measure. You can measure the ph and the voltage, et cetera. And then the water that’s in liquid water or bulk water or normal water starts flowing inside the tube. And that was the revelation to me that may. That got me to think, well, that’s what happens in a human being or any living thing. It has these hydrophilic tubes called capillaries, and it has a liquid in it called blood, which is a lot of it is water. And the blood, the water interacts with the hydrophilic tube and forms a gel, and that separates the charges, which is why you can have a voltage and that separation of charges then starts the water flowing in the, in the capillaries.

So that is the origin of the movement of the blood. And it’s very simple to prove that. That’s how fluid moves in trees and in frogs and in people and just about in every living thing. It’s because of this, the characteristics of this fourth phase of water, the circulation that is the movement of the blood. That’s what we’re talking about, circulation. The question of why does the blood move? And we’re told that it moves because it’s being pushed by the heart. Or let’s even be more clearer than that. The heart is a pressure propulsion device, meaning the walls of the heart squeeze and that causes propulsion of the blood.

And let’s just look at that for a minute because again, we have this problem of what the difference between what we’re told versus, like, common sense. So we have these thousands of miles of blood vessels, and in there we have these sticky fluid with stuff in the fluid that’s the size of the internal diameter of most of the vessels, meaning red blood cells. They’re, they, they’re essentially the same diameter as the capillaries. Now, if you told me or I said to you, michael, I got this pump, it’s one pound, and it’s going to go like this, and it’s going to push this sticky fluid with stuff in it the size of the tubes to 10,000 miles, and then it’s going to stop halfway and then go 10,000 miles back.

You would say, I don’t think so. At least I hope you would say that, because that’s frankly ridiculous. And yet all doctors and cardiologists basically believe it. And the other thing that’s goofy about that is that when you look at the outflow of the heart, so you got a heart and you have a left ventricle, which is supposedly squeezing, and then it exits the heart through an AORTIC arch, which is shaped like an arch. Now, anybody who’s had a garden hose that’s shaped like an arch, if, if there’s no water running through it, it’s shaped like an arch.

And if you turn the spigot on full blast because you got a pump 10,000 miles, if the hose can move, in other words, it’s flexible, it will straighten, right? It’s got to. But the aortic arch during systole, which is when it’s allegedly pushing, bends in. And that’s ridiculous because that makes no sense. There’s no way a tube can bend in when the water is being forced through it or the blood. And I saw that in cardiac catheterizations, the angiogram, they stick the dye in. And I asked cardiologists how come it bends in. And they didn’t have any explanation for that.

So that told me the heart is not pumping. So then what is it doing? So the heart must be function to essentially stop the movement of the blood, because the movement starts in the periphery. It starts where the blood has stopped, which is where any farmer would put their pump, where the water has stopped. Right? You don’t put it where the water is moving the fastest, which is where the heart is. You put it where the water is stopped. You pump it up, and then it fills a tank, the tank expands, and then it builds up pressure.

And then when there’s a pressure differential between the inside of the heart and, and the, and behind the wall, the, the gate, it opens, the gate, creates a suction, and the blood or the water moves out through this suctioned arch. So it’s very clear that the heart functions like a suction device. In your book, you give a detailed description of the geometry of the heart. Please share your views on the cardiac geometry, it’s double helix structure, and how it relates to the heart function. Well, I would say it’s an interesting question because I’ve also learned things about the heart since I wrote the book that makes me question some of what I was writing about in the heart book.

And so what do I mean by that? So I, I ended up hearing about a Spanish cardiologist named Francesco Torrent Guas. This guy took human hearts and animal hearts, and he softened them up a little bit by boiling, and then he unrolled them, and he found that the heart has essentially two muscular systems. One that plunges down, and when it does, it creates a vortex, and the other is it essentially plunges up and creates a vortex as it plunges, as it comes up and you can see that inside the heart, the movement of the blood is in the form of a vortex, which is the so called creative energy of all materials, living beings.

The connection between, like the non material world going into the material world is through a vortex. And that’s why the Sufis apparently said, you know, when God enters the, the human being, it enters through the vortex in the heart. So that’s exactly an accurate description. And, and this comes about because the heart is a continuous band. Suction down, pulling back up, pulling back up helps to suck the blood from the periphery back to the heart. And then it contracts down, it creates a vortex that creates negative pressure. The arch pulls in the blood, goes to the rest of the body, slows down, stops at the, at the tissues to offload gas and food, picks up other gas and food maybe.

And then because of this, the fourth phase of water dynamics which I just described, it starts moving again, goes faster and faster as it goes up to the heart. And that compression of the fluid makes it go faster, just like it does when you go, the water in a river is going faster than water in a lake. And so the whole thing then makes sense, except it’s totally different than what we’re told in anatomy and medical school and biology, which is a, it’s, it’s just a, it’s make believe. Okay, that was great. Thanks. Heart attacks. In your book, you begin with what does not cause heart attacks, and then you explain what does cause them.

And I suggest that we stick to the same order. So first, what does not cause heart attacks? So using the same type of logic, right, so I’m looking at the world through what I can experience. I’ve seen literally thousands of people with chest pain saying they have a heart attack. So it’s very clear what the conventional view is. So you have a heart and it’s a muscle, and you have three main arteries called coronary arteries, and they bring all the blood to the heart. Now that’s not exactly what they say, because when pushed they’ll say, of course, there are small vessels called collateral vessels which bring the blood to the heart as well.

But when they draw you the pictures, they show you these three main coronary arteries and they suggest that all the blood goes through these three arteries. If you have a blockage in one of the arteries, and then they argue about what causes the blockage. So they used to say it’s cholesterol, then they say it’s ldl and then they say it’s lp. And then the holistic Doctors say it’s inflammation or something else, but everybody agrees that there’s a blockage in one of the vessels. The blood can’t get through the blockage, and the area downstream doesn’t get enough blood supply and oxygen and food.

And so it first has pain, which is called angina, and then it dies. Right. So that’s the claim that. And that’s why we give cholesterol drugs to stop the buildup of the cholesterol, which is causing the blockage. Or we have you eat a vegan diet just so you don’t eat fats, because the fat’s causing the blockage. That’s why we do $50 billion a year of stents to unblock the blockage, and another some billion dollars a year of coronary artery bypass grafting. So there’s a lot invested in this theory, and it’s all about the reason you have heart attacks, is you get a blocked artery, all the blood goes through there.

We know there’s a little bit of little collaterals, but they don’t mean anything. And so you get the blood doesn’t go through, and then you don’t have any blood, and that’s why you have a heart attack. Okay, so again, I’m a young person, and I’m trying to figure out, is this true? Because I’m already skeptical. So I asked myself, is the blood the same everywhere in the body, like the spleen and the liver, foot? So it’s the same blood. Like, nobody thinks you have a special blood that goes to your spleen and a different special blood that goes to your heart or anything like that.

And what about the arteries? Is your hepatic artery and splenic artery made of the same thing as the coronary artery? And again, everybody would say, yes. Same blood, same arteries. Therefore, if the problem is too much of something in the blood depositing in an artery, you would get deposits everywhere. And in fact, you do. There’s deposits in the coronary arteries, carotid arteries leading to the head, splenic artery leading to the spleen, hepatic artery leading to the liver. And so they all get blocked. And so then I asked, probably, Let me say, 50,000 people in my life, have you ever seen anybody have a heart attack or know of anybody who’s had a heart attack? Yes.

How about. Do you know anybody who had a spleen attack? No. Me neither. What about a liver attack, foot attack, eye attack? No. Nowhere else except the heart and the brain, which we call strokes, do people have attacks. And I thought, why not? Because they get the same blockages. So that doesn’t make any sense. There’s got to be something different about the brain and the heart than the spleen and the liver and the kidneys and the pancreas and all the rest. And then I had people come in and say, you know, I was fine. And then I walked up this hill, and then I got a little bit of chest pain.

And my wife, I told her, and she said I had to go to the cardiologist because I was going to die of a heart attack. And he did a test and he said, I have a 95% blockage of one of my arteries. I heard that story hundreds of times. Now think about that. If all the blood goes through that artery, that means you have 5% blood flow going to that part of your heart. How did you walk up that hill with 5% blood flow to your heart? How are you even alive? And then you mean to tell me that if you block from 5% down to what, 3% or 2%, you’re going to have a heart attack? Like, 5% is no blood flow.

So that cannot be the problem because they would have had a heart attack already. So then I did the thing which seemed to be logical to me, but apparently not to anybody else, or hardly anybody else. I looked at every published paper where they did autopsies of people who died of heart attacks to see how many of them had a blocked artery. So I looked, and what I found was the lowest was 18%, and the highest number I found was 78%, which I would say is high. But that still means that 22% of the people who died of a heart attack.

So this is the worst of the worst. They didn’t have any blockages in that part of that artery, in that part of their heart. So why do they die? And if it’s 18%, that means 82% died of something else. That’s a lot like, that’s a problem. And interestingly, and one of the main people who researched this, a guy named Giorgio Baroldi, he made a very convincing case that the blockages almost always come after the heart attack, not before. It’s just like if you have a river and it’s flowing freely and then a beaver comes and builds a dam, you’ll get debris upriver from the dam.

It isn’t that the river has a blockage in the flow, it’s that the beaver built a dam and that caused the blockages. And so if your heart dies of certain part dies, it’s not Unreasonable to expect that upstream you would get some debris formation. And he went on and proved that basically 100% of the blockages are after the heart attack, not before. And that I would say it’s unproven that any heart attacks have come because of blockages. Because if you say they are, they are associated with problems, but that doesn’t mean they’re the cause. In order to say it’s the cause, you would have to say, okay, let’s block this artery and see if somebody has a heart attack.

And they’ve done that with dogs. And if they block it acutely, you can cause a heart attack. But if they block it over, say, a week or so, which is more representative of what would happen in a person, they don’t have heart attacks at all. Nothing happens. So I would say that theory has been disproven. And the final thing is when they looked at studies on bypasses and stents, they do no good at all. They don’t increase how long you live, they don’t prevent further heart attacks, and they don’t, even with controlled studies, reduce the amount of chest pain.

And I have a bunch of studies that prove that they are cosmetic surgeries to make you think that something has been done. But there. That’s not the problem. Okay, so a logical question is, what does cause heart attacks? I would start that by saying just reminding people. Whether or not I know why people have heart attacks has no bearing on. On the falsification of the proof that it’s caused by blocked arteries. So what’s the difference between a heart and your leg? Because nobody has leg attacks. So it turns out when you run out of fuel, both of them do what’s called a glycolytic shift.

That’s a fancy word for they shift how they get energy from breathing to fermentation, and you build up something called lactic acid. And if you inject lactic acid, then you get a leg cramp. If you do it in your heart, you get a heart cramp. We call that engine. Now, both of them get cramps, presumably because they ran out of fuel. They start fermenting, they get acidic, and then it causes pain and cramps. Leg, spleen, heart. We don’t feel it in our spleen. Now, your leg and your spleen stop because you can go without a leg and a spleen for a long time, but your heart can’t.

And your brain doesn’t stop. So it keeps on fermenting, and it keeps on building up acids. And the acids lower the ph in the Tissue which we can measure and that causes a breakdown of the tissue which we call necrosis, which is a heart attack. Now that doesn’t happen in your leg or in your spleen or in your liver or in your foot because the area stops, the blood comes in and flushes the lactic acid out. And then you wait until you can get enough fuel to start running again because you know if you start too soon you, you get leg cramps and you don’t want to do that and your heart can’t do that.

And your heart is the most energy rich heart in the brain organs of the body. So they’re the most susceptible to this energy deficit. And you can actually in a way measure that by measuring the magnetic field around the heart looks like a Taurus. And when it’s contracted in meaning the energy is too weak to form this magnetic field that are the people who seem to get heart attacks. And the same with people who have too much sympathetic nervous system, which means fight or flight versus so called parasympathetic, which means people are in a relaxed, comfortable state.

And there’s also been able to figure out that people who are depressed parasympathetic nervous system, they’re the ones who have heart attacks. And even conventional medicine knows that because that’s why they use beta blockers, the number one medicine and cardiologies are beta blockers and they suppress your sympathetic nervous system which is similar to stimulating your parasympathetic but not the same. It’s like stopping you from being stressed but not helping you be relaxed. There is a difference. And they don’t have any medicine or any strategy to keep to help people’s parasympathetic their essentially their feeling of life, right? I’m relaxed, life is good, I’m out in nature, I’m grounded to the earth, I’m out in the sunshine.

Those are the people who don’t have heart attacks. I eat good food, I’m in loving relations, I have a good family, I move a lot. All those things help your parasympathetic nervous system. And the traditional people who did that never had heart attacks. And the people who are on the computer all day and worried, they’re the ones who have heart attacks. All right, thanks, thanks for this detailed explanation. Now very important theme for me is theophantis therphantis has been a personal revelation for me and apparently I’m not alone. And thanks to your book, my father in law, a cardiac patient with a long history of heart disease, has been virtually free of Symptoms for the last three years since he began using Strophanthus extract as his daily supplement.

So please share with us what this substance does and why strophantis can be used both as preventive and remedial medicine. If you look back in the 1940s and 50s, that’s when this thrombogenic theory of heart disease started coming about, which is the blood, the clot in the artery. And interestingly, most of the cardiologists said that’s bullshit because that, because if you get a blockage, then your body makes collateral vessels or little vessels and they bypass it. And in fact they said that the people have the blockages have less heart attacks because they have better collateral circulation.

And so it’s got to do, it’s got to do with the energy of the heart, not the blood vessels. And one of the main medicines they used was this extract of this seeds that grows in Africa and Madagascar places, which stimulates the energy of the heart. It does that by supporting the parasympathetic nervous system, which again is not blocking the sympathetic, but it’s similar. And it gets rid of the lactic acid. And so if you get rid of the lactic acid, that’s the thing that’s essentially destroying your heart, causing the pain, it stimulates the metabolism so it’s more energy efficient and it supports the parasympathetic nervous system, which it’s all.

It’s been proven to do all those things then that would help people with symptoms of heart disease. And that was used all over Europe for decades and in the United States, intravenously, orally, under the tongue, etc. But by the 60s, all the cardiologists said it’s all about blockages. And stran has no effect on blockages, which it doesn’t. So it can’t possibly work. This is the way of thinking is, well, it does work, but it doesn’t make sense according to our theory, therefore it doesn’t work. And so even if I know it works, it must be like a placebo or you’re making it up or you’re a nutcase, or you’re just stupid because it can’t work.

And then they did a few shenanigans to get rid of it, so they got rid of the medicine and then it was gone. But there was case after case and even studies with people all about not like the biochemistry, but what happens to them. In other words, you take 10 people who can’t or 100 people who can’t walk 100ft and you give them structure, and then they can walk, you know, three miles. So there was this disconnect between the experience of the people versus the theory. Again, I happened to learn about it through various sources. And then we started getting it from.

There’s somebody in Brazil who’s making the extract. I mean, it’s the best medicine I’ve ever used because it, it supports their parasympathetic nervous system. They have a better sense of, I feel more relaxed, I feel better, I feel calmer, I can breathe easier. And they don’t get as tired. They can have. Their stamina is better. And very rarely, if ever, have I seen anybody taking strand this go on to have a heart attack. And that’s exactly what the, you know, the literature says. But no matter what they still say, it doesn’t affect the blockages, so it can’t work.

Okay, to wrap up this stream, I would ask you to briefly cover your principles of the cow and heart diet. So number one, if your great grandparents didn’t eat it, don’t eat it yourself. Like any food. That. So it’s. It. I was going to say processed, but if you take cabbage and you make sauerkraut, that is a kind of processing. And if you, if you butcher a pig and render it into lard, that is a kind of processing. So it’s not correct to say don’t eat processed food because sauerkraut is processed food. But so what do I mean? Like, don’t eat food that’s processed except in ways that people have always done it.

People have dried fish and made sauerkraut and fermented, you know, grains into bread, sourdough bread. And that’s, that’s the first. Or that’s one rule. Another one is the choice of the food should be based on what’s best for that food. In other words, if you’re going to eat a carrot, you should grow carrots that are grown in the best soil and have, you know, properly spaced. And they, they’re part of a garden that has lots of other things growing in it, etc. And cows like to eat grass and hang out with other cows. And goats like to eat twigs and grass and pine needles and then they make milk and they like to be with other goats and they don’t like their milk to be cooked that is pasteurized.

You ask, you know, like, you don’t eat eggs from a chicken kept in a cage its whole life. They. It’s never seen the sunlight and scratched around on the earth. That’s a horrible thing. To do to a chicken, and therefore, it’s horrible food. And so that’s how you choose food. I mean, that should be so obvious, but I mean, I never heard that in medical school. So that’s. That’s another principle. The second is there, you know, there is some benefit from not overeating sugar. And when I say sugar, I mean carbohydrates. Like, we build our bodies through proteins and fats.

Although more and more, I am getting to the point where I don’t think food has stuff in it. Let me give you an example of that. So let’s go back to water for a minute. Go like this with your fingers. Now try to push them together like that. With the other hand, you can. Right, okay, now go like this and see if you can push them together. And you can’t, right, because there’s space right? Now, if you take water and you try to compress it, like in a box or a compressor, what happens? Nothing. Because you can’t compress water there.

The reason must be because there’s no space in the water, right? So we’re told that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen, and in between there is nothing space, right? That’s what we’re told. If that was true, you could compress it, right? But you can. So I don’t believe that. I don’t believe water is made of hydrogen and oxygen. Not in atoms, anyways. So what is water made of? Water. It’s not made of. It’s just made of water. What is a grapefruit made of? Nothing. It’s just a grapefruit. These aren’t made of anything. And why is that important with choosing your food? Because I’ve had people say to me, tom, you must be wrong.

Because when I eat saturated fat, I get chest pain. So I of course, ask them, what does saturated fat taste like? I don’t know. I said, did you ever eat saturated fat? Yes, I ate butter. No, it’s not a saturated. In fact, if you actually even do the biochemistry, allegedly it’s only about 30% saturated fat. The rest of it is other things. How do you know that the problem was saturated fat? And how do you know that the taste, which is like butter, is from the saturated fat and not from the minerals or the. Whatever else is in there? The answer is you don’t.

And you don’t know even. Even if it’s true that the reason you had a heart attack is because you ate too much butter, which is odd, because in the early part of the century when there was no heart attacks. The main important food for people to eat was butter and cream. So it’s odd that that’s what gave them heart attacks since that’s what they were eating and they didn’t have heart attacks. And my point is, we do a lot better off if you stop thinking about saturated fat or cholesterol or zinc or vitamin C. So you eat real food.

It’s either unprocessed or processed in a simple, old fashioned way. And it’s not a whole lot of things that are sweet. If you can do that, that’s probably good enough.
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