Andy Schectman: Retail Gold Silver Buying Picks Up After Stock Market Plunge | Arcadia Economics

Second biggest percentage day down 12.4%. It was down on Monday. I think probably what people would love to hear. Any reaction that youre seeing from customers? Are they buying, selling, panicked? Anything you can share about what people are actually doing in terms of gold and silver right now? Today has been one of the busiest days weve had in months, maybe even going back to last year when we had the banks fail. The land of Arcadia. Well, hello there, my friends. Chris Marcus here with you for Arcadia economics on what is already a rather volatile and eventful, maybe exciting, depending on one’s perspective.

Certainly a lot of things happening. We’ve had a sell off that started last week in japanese and us equity market certainly continued on Monday. We’re recording about 03:00 p.m. eastern time on Monday afternoon and just about everything still down, metals down as well. So a lot to talk about and I’m joined again by Andy Sheckman and Miles Franklin. Andy, welcome on in. How are you this morning? I’m great, man. Always on a Monday. Always on a Monday. This is one of the crazier Mondays I can remember in my career. So, hey, you know, as the chinese curse says, may you live in interesting times.

Here we go. This is off to an interesting start this week is anyway. Yeah, well, obviously the big catalyst is that we had quite a thrashing in the japanese Nikkei, where we’ll pull that up here. And we see was the second biggest percentage day down since Black Monday in terms of overall point decline. Obviously that came in at the biggest, 112.4%. It was down on Monday. We’re hearing a lot about unwinding of the carry trade and obviously that’s filtered over to the us markets and we’ll touch on that in a moment. Although obviously I’d love to get your opinion on gold and silver, which sometimes in some of these sell offs, hang in there.

And it was interesting in the Sunday night trading, which had was Monday morning in the far east, saw gold and silver were rallying for a little while while the Nikkei sell off began. Then obviously that was reversed. Silver was down 6% early on Monday morning. Has come back in a little bit. So again, we’re at 03:00 in the afternoon on Monday and we see 27 23 gold at 24 48. So Andy, I’m curious and I think probably what people would love to hear, any reaction that you’re seeing from customers? Are they buying, selling, panicked? Anything you can share about what people are actually doing in terms of gold and silver right now? Yeah, it’s been a really very busy, busy, busy day today.

I think people, Chris, realize that things are beginning to break, and they realize that a sell off like this often happens counterintuitively. I never know what to make of it. People say the conventional wisdom is that you throw out the baby with the bathwater in order to meet, for example, margin requirements. And if you look at the unwinding of the carry trade, it would certainly, with the yen strengthening the way that it has been, it would elicit margin calls on these levered positions. And whether or not it’s people selling their gold and silver because it’s so highly liquid, or it’s just the cartel’s way of continuing to step on things to make the perception of gold and silver being the place to run.

Kind of trying to sever that relationship, which is more along the lines of what I think people are seeing through, that. The tricks and the methods that have been used for a very long time, I think are growing long in the tooth, and they are becoming far more transparent to the investing public. And I would say today has been one of the busiest days we’ve had in months. Literally, maybe even going back to last year when we had the banks fail. People are not dissuaded whatsoever. In fact, I think they’re quite incentivized to see the value that is found here in a price that just got clubbed.

Although it’s interesting with gold, it’s back above $2,400 and only down a little bit. Right now, the futures I show only down $23.50. They were down as much as 70 plus earlier this morning. And so I think that this is a short term knee jerk reaction, but I don’t think we’re out of the woods yet in any respect as to how this all plays out. One other note. I think it’s important when we talk about what gold is doing, and when you look at it in the light of Japan, where it looks like, by all intent and purposes, the wheels appear to be coming off.

Ten years ago, an ounce of gold was about ¥140,000.05. Years ago, it was about ¥150,000. That’s a seven plus percent change in five years. It was ¥200,000 in 2020 and roughly ¥250,000 in October 2022. In 18 months, from 2020 to 22, the price of gold went up $25 in yen. It spiked to ¥278,000 in July of 2023. And as of just the other day, not too long ago, just a couple of days ago, we were over 380,000 ¥383,000. Thats 38% increase in one year. So you can see as the yen has really gotten into trouble, gold has done what it is supposed to do and it has gone much, much higher.

So im not worried about where gold and silver end up. I think this knee jerk reaction is exactly the way our clients are reading it. And its a subsidy, its an opportunity. What we’re seeing is a currency that’s collapsing and all the intervention in the world. What it perhaps has done is prick the everything bubble. And that’s the way that it looks like right now, with everything, everything getting clobbered. Yeah, certainly is the case. There is our goal chart in yen terms. So you can see that. And I mean, it was interesting earlier this morning, Vince Lancey was talking about and he was mentioning he would expect that by the time stock market comes back to a similar level, gold will have been trading higher.

So seeing that a little bit today where especially on the gold side, not down as much as the stock markets are down. Although of course, I think the thing that a lot of people who focus on the metals and turn to the metals pick up on is that even in the midst of whats happening, yes, theres a lot of volatility out there. Although were already seeing the response. I don’t want to say increasingly likely because it was almost a guarantee before, but we saw rather quickly the markets pricing in the probabilities for cuts. I wish I had a screenshot of what we had earlier today.

Oh, I’d say about 930 this morning. The probabilities were split between whether it was going to be 50 basis points or 75 basis points by September. Now that’s coming a bit. We’re seeing 13.5% for 25 basis points, 87% of a 50 basis point cut. And actually my old economics teacher back from my Wharton days here, Jeremy Siegel, was out on CNBC and he was quite adamant he wanted an emergency rate cut. Did hear whispers Monday morning of an emergency Fed meeting, which do not believe has occurred. Although I’m a sure that a lot of those people are talking.

But anyway, here was Jeremy Siegel and he wanted 75 basis point cut after the Friday labor report and another 75 basis points at September. So again, I preface this with. We started the year where everyone was expecting six or seven rate cuts. Obviously that got pushed back. Although Gee, between the move by Japan on Wednesday morning, our time, then you had the Fed who did not cut rates yet left the door open that were on track for September. And you get weak manufacturing on Thursday, you get weak labor on Friday. It sure seems like those rate cuts are coming soon.

Yeah, they have no choice at this point and they will just acquiesce into reigniting the know the inflation machine. They’re trapped. They’re trapped between inflation and austerity. They’re trapped between if they raise rates, they blow up the system and if they don’t raise rates, and again, that would be to keep inflation in check. And if they don’t, which they won’t, you’re going to see inflation, I think, just get out of control. Even if the budget was balanced today, we still have nearly 200 trillion in funded and unfunded liabilities that need to be paid for. We are a country that is addicted to spending, period.

And at the level of debt creation, they have no choice but to lower rates. The whole system is on the verge of breaking apart and they will do what all governments have done since the beginning of time and that is acquiesce to. To inflation. But look, there’s all this talk of the massive insider selling and buffet selling $71 million worth of bank of America shares and dumping his Apple shares and the insider sees something coming, no question about it. And the Fed is late in all of their actions. This will be no different. We are not out of the woods yet.

And a 50 point or 75 point decrease in interest rates isn’t going to do much for it anyway. I’m glad you mentioned the Warren Buffett news there because I think that came out over the weekend. Don’t think that was out yet as of Friday, but sold half of his Apple stake and has a record cash amount of 277 billion. Now I know Warren is nothing a big fan of gold. He’s expressed that on several occasions. I’ll maintain my belief. That seems a little odd to me given that his. When you read some of the talks by his father, Howard Buffett, they sounded like a Ron Paul speech, so we’ll leave that aside.

Yet he has invested in silver twice. So. And again, I’m not saying I’ve seen anything to suggest that he is going to be doing that again. Yet I have posted his I believe it’s the 1998 shareholder address to Berkshire Hathaway where he talks about why he took, which was then his second silver position. Talked about supply and demand. Back then it was the photography where you had growing demand now solar panels, but was interesting because basically everything he cited, certainly the case today. And that’s even perhaps without needing to go down the path of our returning to Silver as a store value.

So Andy, did you get a call for more yet. I wish I did. I wish I did. But I think one of the things that’s worth mentioning, everyone focuses on how good gold has done and laments at Silver’s performance. And I think that’s part and parcel with the way that we expect markets to behave these days, where we’ve seen such massive increases in prices that happen so fast in tech and in crypto that we don’t really notice. But look, silver’s rallied by over 100% since it’s low in 2020. It’s up 105, 110% from its low point of under dollar twelve an ounce.

And I think that probably comes as a surprise to people who are just following silver kind of passively watching gold at $2,400 an ounce. Silver will have its day, no question about it. And I think guys like Warren, I’m sure they notice very well and understand very well gold and silver and probably have a significant position, and it just don’t tell the world about it. They make their money on. He makes his money on equities, so I understand that. But I think for him to expect him to not understand it. Look, gold has outperformed the s and P 500.

Even with dividends reinvested for 25 years, its average 9.9% compounding since the beginning of the century. Thats outpaced just about anything Warren owns. And I think it would be foolish to assume that he doesnt own any. He may not talk it, but when you have the wealth that he does, and your influence is centered around traditional assets and securities in american corporations, that makes sense to me. But don’t be surprised if he and others like him have nice stashes of gold and silver physically held safely away somewhere to protect even his large stack of cash. So I guess we’ll have to see if he’s going to add any to Berkshire Hathaway looking for a value.

You sure think he’d find some in the mining shares? I know he’s added mining shares before. I don’t know. I haven’t looked lately to see if he has any in there now. But geez, I couldn’t think of a better place to find value for a value based investor like Warren. Well, who knows? Maybe he’s watching today. I hope you have a good special in your back pocket there something if Warren wants to come and buy a couple hundred million ounces of silver, that you can get him a good deal on that. Absolutely. And although, Andy, if he does call, since I’m putting this one out there, if he does call, you to do that.

You can save that for the Arcadia show first so we can break that scoop. One other note about the stock market that came across this morning and just found it interesting and perhaps emblematic of when we see some of these big moves. I know we’ve had more inquiries this morning as well about gold and silver purchases. Not surprised that you have any of the times we see large market losses in here. You see the magnificent seven over the last three sessions have lost 1.28 trillion. Now this was perhaps when the Nasdaq was down a little further, but at one point, magnificent seven down 659 billion just this morning.

So interesting. You see a lot of that money going into the us bond market, although that reminds me a bit, as I think you know, I’m a big fan of Luke Groman, and he often cites how he thinks that we’re seeing the process of $130 trillion, realizing the bond market is the one that has the problem. And so makes you wonder if money comes out of equities and out of bonds, that certainly in today’s environment where now we have again increased geopolitical tension in the Middle East. I know. A side note, I was watching Joe Biden’s recent press conference after he resigned.

He did say one of the things he accomplished in his tenure was peace in the Middle east. Unfortunately, doesn’t seem like it’s going quite that way. But anyway, I think we have covered most of the news here today, although I guess the one other thing that I did want to check in with you about was the premiums. Have those changed at all? Anything different so far based on what you’re seeing? No, not really. But this is the exact environment where you would see it change because this is the kind of environment that wakes people up and increases volume industry wide tremendously.

So I would bet dollars to donuts that when we talk next week, I will tell you the premiums have risen. In fact, I shouldn’t say that. I spoke with my head trader recently, this morning, yesterday. I don’t even remember today’s been so busy. But he did say in trying to get 100 ounce bars and kilo bars from Valcambi, one of the swiss refineries, that they are raising premiums, we will see premiums rise. There is something that I wanted to talk about that came out just a few days ago. I’m sure you probably covered it because no one covers the current events quite the way you do.

But in case you missed it, or in case I missed you talking about it, did you talk much about the proposal from Senator Loomis to use this strategic bitcoin reserve to be funded partly by revaluing the gold. Have you shown that? I’m sure you have. I sure did. I remember talking about it a lot last week. I’m pretty, pretty sure we put that in one of the shows where I thought that was odd, the evaluating the feds gold. Im assuming she means the gold certificate since fed doesnt own the gold thats held on behalf of the treasury.

But I guess the main takeaway, and I was feeling proud of myself when I was reading Lukes Friday column and he mentioned the same thing where, and I know theres a little confusion because I believe Trump had talked about Mount Gox confiscated bitcoin and Loomis Washington, slightly different perspective. But she said that they were going to revalue the Fed’s gold and use that money to buy bitcoin. So at least we’ll go with her plan. On some level. You’re using an accounting trick to go purchase something and if it’s deemed for national security, go purchase bitcoin. If the Nasdaq goes down 12% tomorrow, where’s the line if the housing market pricing starts fall, if we start getting defaults, if the bond market has an issue, and I think Vince again phrased it well, where it’s like it’s being brought into the conversation.

And that’s one of the themes I think we’ve seen this year, a lot of things brought into the conversation, the World bank report, the Philly Federal Reserve studying the gold standard. I don’t think things necessarily have to happen on the first time, but at least they’re putting the proposal out there. And that was the first thing I thought of. Again, Luke mentioned it as well, where if you are saying you can do this and mark it up and create that through an accounting maneuver, what else does that allow you to do? And I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out sooner than later.

Well, I’ve talked a lot about it with you, too. Gold held in all of the balance sheets across the globe are held in an account called the gold revaluation account. You can’t even make that up. The head of the Dutch National bank has been the one talking about this a lot lately, saying that gold is used, held to start over from the ashes when the economy breaks. He also says even though their balance sheet is upside down, they have 20 billion euro in gold in the revaluation account. My thought after reading that is if they want to revalue gold a little bit to create this strategic reserve, why not revalue it a lot of, and recapitalize the federal debt? We have 260 plus million ounces, and at $20,000 an ounce, that’s over $5 trillion that you put into the TGA that the treasury could use to buy back much of the long end of the bond market that’s getting clobbered.

I don’t know that they’re going to do that, but I think it’s something that is being talked more and more and more about by central bankers, by policymakers. So wouldn’t surprise me to see something like that happen. Everyone talks about the horrendous debt burden that all these western countries are in, and we are, and they are. But to realize that there’s inflate or default. I talked about finding a villain, Putin and Xi Jinping, and using the dumping of dollars and treasuries that we have incited as a rallying cry, and pointing to a villainous that resets the system.

But number four, the option of revaluing gold is probably the least painful of all. And I wouldn’t put that past any country right now, or Group G seven versus BrICs, or whomever it would be that would think about this, because really, what is something worth but what someone or some group of people are willing to pay for it? And if China said gold’s 20,000 an ounce right now, that’s what we’re paying. Anything that’s literally not stapled to the floor would be pried up and sent over to Beijing, where it would be arbitrage versus the western price.

I think it will happen. I don’t know to what degree or who starts it or how it all plays out, but it’s, I think, too much of a pink elephant in the corner of the room to not be really noticed by the politicians. So, yeah, I think these are very interesting times that we should expect to see some interesting things play out, as this yen carry trade, which has kept the system afloat for a long time, seems to be breaking down in real time. And what does that mean? With the unwinding for asset prices largely, that have been distorted through the low interest rates and this carry trade environment that could very quickly, as all of these big hedge funds are getting margin calls and have to unwind, it could really create havoc, at least for a while in the global market.

So I guess we’ll see how this all plays out. But, yeah, this is one of the most interesting days I can remember in my career, at least in terms of what we are seeing and what could be based upon all of these factors. You’re talking strife in the Middle east, craziness with the political situation, the geopolitical situation, the economics of it all, the divisiveness in the country. There’s just so many things that are starting to spiral that I think now is the time for people to really buckle up and start to pay attention to what’s happening.

And yeah, gold and silver are on sale right now, but I will tell you, although premiums haven’t visibly gone higher, my bet would be that they will start going higher almost immediately based upon the kind of interest and concern that we’re seeing from our clients and some very large orders in the past few days, starting over the weekend. Really, with all of the war drums rattling, I guess if I were going to make a prediction on how things could get out of control very fast if Israel is attacked by Iran, look for them to attack their nuclear facilities, which they’ve been talking about for two or three months, and look for them to attack their oil fields.

You could send oil over 100 just like that and watch gold go with it. That’s how tenuous things are. A couple of weeks ago, we were a half an inch away from disaster or chaos versus relative calm. The whole system, the whole ecosystem is balancing on Razor’s edge right now, and something is going to trigger it. Something is going to incite all of this to play out, and maybe this is the beginning of it. The unwinding of the carry trade seems too simple to me, but I guess we’ll have to see. ChriS and I’ve never been more adamant that it’s getting late in the day for people to protect themselves, because, yes, it’s cheap, yes, it got hammered, but that’s exactly the atmosphere that we’ve seen over and over and over and over again that very quickly just eradicates availability, puts great delivery delays on product and premium.

Shoot right back up. From what I would tell you, has been the lowest premiums we’ve seen in four years. My guess is by next week, theyre much higher. Well, I suppose for people whove been watching the rally and wanted to purchase, but were wondering whether there would be a pullback. Another way to look at it, I did buy some gold last week, which I was happy about. And actually it still might be about breakeven right now, although I was happy to get it a little bit less than at the peak of the rally. Either case, Andy, in case Warren is still watching attentively, can you let him know if he wants to pick up some silver what is on special this week so he can get the best deal for his american dollar or whatever currency he may be using.

I believe. You do still accept bitcoin as well, right? Yeah, we do. We accept bitcoin through bitpay. We issue a bitpay link, which then is converted in dollars right away. So we have dealer’s choice silver junk, dimes, quarters and half dollars. Pre 65, 250 over spot per ounce. So the halves will be included. They’re the same price as the dimes or the quarters. We have the Trump fight for America silver 1oz color bars, minimum 2020 bars per order. They’re expensive. They’re $6 over. But I think I have a picture of those real quick. I think they’re, they’re worth seeing.

They’re, they’re that iconic image. This is the front of the bar right here. Let’s see if I can. That’s the front of the bar right there, and then the back of the bar right there. I bought as many as I could. I know they’re a novelty. They are expensive, but I thought they were worth getting. So we also have the. Bear with me 1 second. We also have the. And it looks like I was wrong on the junk. Silver. It’s just the half dollars. It’s the pre 65 half dollars at 250 overlandhouse, the dimes and quarters will be less.

We also have backdated austrian Philharmonics in sealed mint boxes at 310 over spot. 2024. Silver eagles, 550 over spot. Got the trump bars. And for gold, the only gold we have are back dated 1oz buffaloes at dollar 99 over spot. So again, stuff is really cheap. I mean, it really is compared to where it’s been. We see some more craziness like this within the markets in particular, you’ll see premiums go parabolically higher. And I don’t know if that happens in a blur or if it happens orderly, but I would say, if I had to guess, we’ve seen the bottom of where premiums are only to go higher from here, based upon the way things are unfolding.

Yeah, well, and one last note, since you’re mentioning about. Got a couple of these, got a couple of those bars. In terms of things that are available, I don’t want to get too ahead of myself here, but we did have some good news. The guess, the short story for people who’ve been wondering and mention again is that they were quite expensive. The first one that we had made, in fact, mine, sent me back a few ounces of silver. Shall we say, spent the last two years finding someone who a. Could make them inside the US so you don’t get hit with a customs bills.

I know you got that fun experience. So, anyway, we found someone who’s made. They’re not cheap, they’re less expensive than before, but they are made in the US. And the first prototype from our new maker is just about finished. And I’ll leave him nameless. Although one of our superfans in our audience has laid claim to the first chopper Ben. And hopefully in the next two weeks, I would say we’ll have a little more information about when those will actually be available for someone who would. Well, I would think we need to have a Janet Yellen as the number two and run a series on this.

The. You know. You want the silver Janet Yellen, don’t you? Yeah, I do. I think it. I mean, without the. It’s like. It’s like peanut butter with no jelly, man. I think you got to have. You gotta have Janet Yellen in there, too. So I think we should start figuring out the designs for. For Janet. And, you know, I suppose we could even get a Powell and Volker and Bernanke. We get the whole, you know, the whole wonder team powers. You know, the whole. What were those. What were they called? The super friends. Right. You know, the whole.

The whole crew. I’d buy the whole set personally. I have two of the chopper bends. I would. I would definitely buy the entire set myself and sell them to people because, you know, I don’t know. I think they’re cool. Yeah, well, maybe we’ll make an equally silvery opposing superhero. In fact, a whole set of superheroes. We have talked about the Jim Willie. We can make him in a bobblehead form while he, you know, you have a sound chip, so you can call you a moron as. Oh, yeah, let me just. Let me say one thing, too.

Not many other silver. Silver products have that feature. Just throwing that out there. Well, and, you know. No, they don’t. And I’m a big Jim Willie fan, and I had mentioned something to you the other day by text, but I just wanted to say one thing. I watched your two part interview with Jim Willie, and I think his information is fantastic and certainly thought provoking. And he said something that I just wanted. Hopefully, he’s listening. And I just wanted to put an exclamation point behind it. He was talking about all of these countries that he thought would form a OPEC style cartel for silver.

And he had mentioned how Indonesia had applied, I believe, had applied to the BrIcs. And he was talking a lot about Indonesia during your interview. And it jarred me. And I’m like, that’s right, the president of Indonesia. I think his name is like, woodudu something to that extent. Last year called for an OPEC style cartel of rare earth metals because the majority of all the rare earths are found in the eurasian continent. 100% of them last few years have been refined in China. Not real well thought out for a green agenda. But the point of it is that if they are publicly talking about a cartel for rare earths, sure as hell makes a whole lot of sense to do the same thing.

In regards to silver and his thought that this would happen, when he said Indonesia just triggered, I’m like, yeah, that not only does it sound plausible, it seems probable. And I think that’s really the play that these countries are doing. This is the Zoltan Pozar playbook. They realize it’s about he or she who has the commodities wins. And it’s not just about precious metals. It’s about everything strategic, from rare earths to wheat and soybeans and corn, to copper, to all the base metals and the precious metals and the rare earths and all of the commodities. And these are the countries that are not only accumulating and refining and producing, but they’re the ones who have felt had the biggest effect on the.

The manipulation on price. So, yeah, I think Jim is on to something. And I just wanted to say, jim, if you’re listening, I agree with you. And here’s another example that would substantiate and back up what you’re saying. So, other than that, Chris, you know I appreciate your brother and always look forward to our brief conversations. The world is spinning faster, man. And I think it’s never been more important for us to. To tell people what’s going on because they ain’t getting this information from the mainstream, that is for sure. One last thing I just wanted to say, completely off script, we talk a lot about the banks.

And I always talk about this bank in St. Louis, that or this building in St. Louis, the AT and T one building that was sold for 205 million in 2006 and sold for 3.7 million the other day. Just when I thought I had seen it all. Here’s another one just like it. 1 million square foot building in midtown Manhattan, 135 West 50th street, was just auctioned off for 8.5 million. There was only one bidder at the auction that’s down 97.5%. It was valued at 332 million. When it was purchased for 332 million in 2006. It just sold for 8.5 million.

How much more of this can the banks take? Is the only question I want people to think about. And this is just getting started. So you too, for $8.5 million, can own your own 1 million square foot building in downtown Manhattan or midtown Manhattan. Want people to think about this when they think about where are we in this cycle? It’s just beginning. We are not out of the woods yet. And you start to see, as it appears we’re heading into a deeper recession through all of the reinversion of the yield curve, or I forget what the name of that.

I forget the name of it. With the unemployment numbers, we just triggered some theory that seems to have a great track record that says we’re heading into a recession. We are heading into a recession. And that’s only going to make the banks that much more on edge. Expect things to get crazy. Chris and I look forward to picking up where we left off next week. Well, I hear you. And suppose in terms of that whole establishment situation, I mean, maybe there’s only one man who could really properly sum that up. I mean, they are dangerously ignorant.

So, Andy, great words of Jim. Willie, we’ll leave it at that. But Andy, thanks for this week’s update and we’ll see what happens in the next week. But sure, it will be an eventful one and we’ll check back in with you then. You look good, Chris. Thank you, brother. I’ll see you soon. Well, thank you, Andrew, as always for today’s episode and thanks to everyone watching at home. Hope you found that helpful. Enjoyed being here and had some fun while you were watching and certainly encouraging. I’ve seen it here and I know he mentioned as well that after the stock market plunge, seeing people buying gold and silver again, more so than in the past couple months in particular, certainly than at any point during the recent rally.

And another thing just to think about that I keep in my mind is that if you go back five or ten years ago, central banks and some of the countries in the east weren’t purchasing gold as they are right now. So sometimes these things change and we haven’t seen that on the silver side yet. Maybe we will, maybe we won’t. Although interesting to think what happens if we do get to that point. And certainly going through a sequence of events that at least introduced the possibility. So we’ll keep you posted on that. And real quick, before we wrap up, did want to thank Silver Viper Minerals, who brought us today’s show.

And Silver Viper is run by Steve Cope, who you see on our show once a month, gives us an update on the markets, a lot of the dynamics on the mining side. And obviously, as we’ve talked about before, their project been at a little bit of a standstill as they’ve been waiting to raise capital to get their next round of drilling ongoing. Of course, especially since the market, the silver market, came in from the $32 price level, the financing environment has not been easy since then. So in either case, to get an update of where they’re at, the options they’re exploring.

And the latest from Steven Silver Viper. Well, that video is coming your way now.
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