➡ The article is about a discussion between Dr. Andrew Kaufman and Hakeem Anwar on the True Health Report. They discuss the history of internet technology and its potential for surveillance, leading to concerns about privacy. Hakeem, a former software engineer, shares his journey from working in big tech to focusing on privacy and educating others about it. He also talks about his initiative, Take Back Our Tech, and his privacy company, Above, which creates privacy devices.
➡ The text discusses the development of a social media app focused on freedom and privacy, and the challenges faced due to the corruptibility of personal data. It also delves into the origins of social media platforms like Facebook and MySpace, and their potential intentional development for data collection. The text further explores the concept of Total Information Awareness, a project aimed at tracking and simulating global events, and its modern applications in AI and data collection. Lastly, it warns about the dangers of accepting funding from certain sources as an entrepreneur, as it could lead to loss of control and potential misuse of the company.
➡ The text discusses the growing use of Flock cameras, which are automatic license plate readers, by various entities like Home Depot, police departments, and assisted living facilities. These cameras can identify car details and potentially facial features, raising privacy concerns. The text also mentions the potential for digital IDs, created from biometric and legal identity data, to be used in surveillance. The author warns against willingly giving up this information due to the potential misuse by future governments and the lack of transparency in how the data is used.
➡ The text discusses the increasing use of digital IDs and biometrics in various sectors, such as banking and travel. It highlights concerns about privacy and the potential for misuse of this data, especially as it becomes more integrated into everyday life. The text also discusses the role of tech companies in surveillance, with devices and cloud services often automatically analyzing and storing user data. It suggests that while there may be ways to limit this surveillance, the default settings on many devices and services prioritize data collection.
➡ The text discusses the privacy concerns of using regular smartphones and introduces a new privacy-focused phone developed by a company founded in 2021. This phone, called a de-Googled phone, uses an open-source operating system and offers various privacy features, including the ability to turn off the microphone and camera. It also provides strict control over app permissions and data access. The phone can be used anywhere in the world with any cell service, and it can also function on Wi-Fi or ethernet. The company also offers encrypted messaging services for enhanced privacy.
➡ The text discusses a secure app that can be installed on both phones and laptops, allowing for encrypted sharing of sensitive information. It also mentions the ability to install business apps like Slack and Zoom, and provides insight into third-party companies embedded in these apps. The text further highlights the importance of open-source apps and a supportive community for users. Lastly, it discusses the risks of using Google’s file sharing and suggests alternatives that prioritize local storage and secure file sharing.
➡ The text discusses a phone that allows users to control their data and privacy. It has features like sharing files, collaborating on projects, and using apps like Dropbox. The phone also allows users to create separate profiles for different purposes, like work, and control what data each app can access. The phone is designed to help users manage their data and privacy, and is available for purchase with a holiday discount.
➡ Our company offers a privacy-focused communication service, including a free month of software services like VPN, file sharing, and encrypted messaging. We provide personal assistance to help you transition from your old device to your new one. We recommend our 9 Series phones, which have updates until 2031, and our special quantum laptop. Please note, due to high demand, delivery may be delayed until January. We also offer a detailed Digital ID report and an ebook on privacy settings for your current phone, and I host a weekly educational show on tech privacy.

ARPANET was the precursor to the Internet, So they’re deeply involved with the foundations for these technologies. Total Information Awareness was about creating a system where anything that’s happening in the world could be measured and tracked and then simulated. And so there was other projects like Sentient World Simulation, which would see the impacts of operations like political changes and how people would react. This is the True Health Report, where critical appraisal fuels true freedom. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the True Health Report. I’m your host, Dr. Andrew Kaufman. Now, today, we’re going to be covering a very important topic that I have seen certainly been making content about in recent months.

And I want to first caution the audience that this can lead to some dark thinking and some negative emotions. So we’re going to focus a lot in the second half of the interview on solutions. So stick around, because that’s where the optimism and hope come into play to balance out the unfortunate aspects of the truth about the technology and surveillance state that we are currently living in. Now, I heard about today’s guest, Hakeem Anwar, through a couple of recent interviews he has done with Alex Eck and with the Corbett Report, and he has created excellent resources that are a big part of the solution, and that’s really why I wanted to bring him on.

And then he also is a young man who is already working in the truth space and trying to preserve and create an amazing future for his generation and for his progeny. And that really impresses me. So welcome to the True Health Report. Hakeem. Andy, thank you so much for having me on. I’m getting used to calling you Andy. I want to say, Dr. Andy. That feels like a balance, but it’s great to be here and good, good to meet you. Well, you know, listen, these titles, right, don’t necessarily bestow any respect. That should be automatic in my opinion.

And, you know, we are at the same level. We’re not. There’s no hierarchy here. I may be older and more experienced, but, you know, you have probably more potential to change things in the future, so that equalizes us on my terms. Hakeem, why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you came into this topic and decided to focus your career on, you know, such a different pursuit than the mainstream. Yeah, well, I’ve always been a black sheep, and I started using computers at a very young age. Too young, I’d say now, looking 20 years in the past.

And so at the height of my career, I was a software engineer, making websites, web applications, mobile applications. I lived in New York City. And this was the height of everything I thought I had. Everything. There was a general aspiration to want to be a good software engineer and work your way into one of the big four tech companies, faang, as we called it. And I was already awake by this time, so I was a bit of a black sheep. And then I finally saw that all the things I had been researching and going down rabbit holes online was true.

It was happening, and it was happening right then in 2020. So I saw the city really just crumble in a matter of months. And I decided, hey, I’m not going to stay here and build this prison around me. I moved back home and luckily I had friends like Eric Brose of Freedom Cell Network. And he asked, hey, do you want to help out with this project? And basically what it was was like a social network, a Facebook for freedom minded people. And so seeing kind of this data behind the scenes as I built the website, I realized like, whoa, this is the true power of technology.

And this, this information, all this connection that’s happening here is sacred. And how can I protect that? I was already a pretty paranoid person and then just, it kind of sent me forward. This is what I can do to help people. As you’ve, you’ve shown in your work, we can, we can take ownership of our own health and we can educate ourselves and we can start working outside of the system. Right. And everyone’s doing that, but the problem is they’re doing that with corrupted technology. And so that’s. I started educating. I have educational initiative called Take Back Our Tech.

So I started teaching people how to install Linux on their laptops, which software they should use. And also on the phone side, I really wanted to know how actually does surveillance works and not let it be like a scary black box. So I did a lot of research on mobile privacy and from the learnings, I had good ideas. And we ended up using a phone between the team to communicate. And I realized like, okay, there’s enough of a need for this. And so we started above, which is our privacy company. Well, now Hakeem, and we’re going to definitely talk about above, right? Which makes privacy devices like phones and tablets, I believe.

But how did. You said you were working for Big Tech as a software developer and you were going down rabbit holes. Tell us a little bit more about what you mean there. Yeah, I mean, it started all the way back in college and just, you know, the serendipity of meeting someone, they may turn out to be a good friend and mentor. To you and being told about the military industrial complex and the medical industrial complex and the vaccine schedules and how all of these things work and just if you’re, if you are ready for the knowledge, it should completely change your worldview.

And so, and you know, I have a business degree, but I also got a degree, self titled degree in alternative thinking. And so then when I ended up in the workforce, finally, I never really fit in, but you know, I went all the way deep down to deep underground military bases. The potential for alien on the planet, you know, just, just all the way down right. Now when you were, when you were in your courses, did you ever raise any of these topics or were you like living a parallel life that was kind of on the sly? Yeah, early on it was conspira tament to me.

It’s just the darkness of what was going on and that it was hidden for so many people. That’s what attracted me, kind of the occult knowledge. And I wanted to know for myself and I didn’t know I could ever do anything about it. Right. It’s this massive beast of a system that has even entrapped the people that are working inside its hierarchy. So it was kind of like, yeah, it’s good to know. It wasn’t until the lockdowns happened and there was that fear energy in the air. And then I saw people walking around in Mexico freely saying, hey, there’s no, no lockdowns here.

And I was like, it just snapped something for me. Like we can do, we can do something about this. We can live our lives in a different way. That’s amazing. So it was during that time that you decided to actually make a career change and embody this truth in all your pursuits instead of sort of having this divide or dissonance, right, between. Because, you know, I’ve met many people, right, since I’ve been speaking out publicly in the truth space. And there, there are a number of folks who know about all these topics, right, and have found the truth.

But then they’re, you know, working for a defense contractor or hospital laboratory. Right. And still like participating in the system and maybe, maybe feel trapped. Right. But you found a way out. Were there sacrifices you had to make on that journey? Yeah, most definitely. Everyone in my family thought I was crazy for doing what I was doing. They didn’t understand. I, you know, I had to move back in with my parents and my friends didn’t understand they were making, you know, they were making a half million dollars a year working at the companies they were working on.

And I Just thought like, so I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just say to people, if you’re working in these roles, it’s not like you have to quit tomorrow. Where is it all going? Do you have a plan? Is it a bridge? And so I did skirt two worlds for a long period of time. And then when I was given a platform to speak and I started sharing some of the things on my mind about big technology companies and the government and the unfairness, the injustice, the corruption, at a certain point I was like, okay, you went too far, you’re blackballed.

Like, don’t even think, don’t even think about going back. And then I was like, and then there was kind of the desperation. Now you need to figure it out. And luckily there was because I was of service and there had good people around me there. You know, the op, it was just very easy. It opened up. I can’t say it was like it was easy to figure out what direction to go, but it took a few years of trying and really working hard for it to take off. Well, that’s an amazing story. And you know, anyone who is an entrepreneur is going to go through this journey, right.

Even if you’re not going into a more free and truthful space. When you were working with Derek Brose’s organization, you mentioned, right, you were developing a social media app, right, that was going to be freedom oriented and privacy oriented. And that helped you see from the developer’s perspective, like the corruptibility of having people’s personal data. Yeah. Well, I’m just wondering if you researched at all about like the origins of, you know, MySpace and Facebook and you know, do the end also there are whistleblowers from those organizations, right. So, you know, did, was there a connection that you were able to make that people maybe even intentionally developed to them for that purpose? It became very self evident.

I wouldn’t say I was an expert before I came in. I just intuitively knew that this feels wrong. But when I really, it took taking the actions and then building the website and then trying to promote it on like social networks and search engines and ranking on search engines, then I saw that there was a, there was an agenda to hide it, to hide it, discredit it, get it deranked. It was really weird. I mean, I’ve been fighting with hackers and spammers since day one simply from being affiliated with it. And it made my life a nightmare in some cases.

And I had to do all nighters and stuff like that, but I just knew, hey, there’s a lot of, like, resistance here. And so I think that helped me understand and start to do the research. And, of course, I learned about Facebook and its origins. And, you know, it’s a continuation of Total Information Awareness. And I understood pretty quickly how this public private partnership works. Can you. Can you tell us a little bit more about that term that you mentioned now? Total Information awareness? Sure. So this was a. This was a DARPA project at. Really? That’s the Defense Research project, Right? Darpa.

That they do experimental work, like military applications and such. Absolutely. And I mean, they’re. You know, ARPANET is. Was the precursor to the Internet. So they’re deeply involved with the foundations for. For these technologies, which there’s a lot to unpack there. So they were working on many different things. But this project, Total Information Awareness, was about creating a system where anything that’s happening in the world could be measured and tracked and then simulated. And so there was other projects like Sentient World Simulation, which would see the impacts of operations, like political changes and how people would react.

So that was the concept. I don’t know how far they ever got in building it. There’s obviously plans and concepts. It seems to me like that the current applications of AI and like Palantir’s, for example, kill chain application, would be embodiments of that principle. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head, and you’ve got it exactly right. This past year has been really important because the paradigm has shifted before. They’re really. They. They didn’t have the resources or time to glue together millions of different sources of data. There’s not really a unified way to do it.

And so they’ve been working on this private model. And big data as an industry has evolved enough to where Palantir could come in and say, hey, we’re doing it with police departments. We’re doing it with the military. And so now this paradigm that you described with Palantir, where many different sources of data can be standardized and glued in to one data lake, is. I call it universal surveillance. So it doesn’t matter where you are. Like, just to give an example. So it’s like a hardware store can make a private contract with the police department because it’s, you know, it’s better for them.

Oh, they want to make shoppers safer, so they will give their cameras over, and then it can all be fed into one system that can. So in other words, you can get, you know, warrantless surveillance. Right. Through private companies actually infringing upon your Fourth Amendment protections. Right. But it sidesteps it because they’re not the government doing this. Yeah, you got it exactly right. And of course, they have deep partnerships with the government. I mean, some of their executive suite is part of the US Military as lieutenant colonels, so they’re very, very intimate with each other. And no one can say what goes behind the scenes, but it’s.

It’s fairly obvious, but. Right. And this. This reminds me of the airline requirements during COVID to wear a mask or to show that you had a negative COVID test if you left the country. Right. The. The government, it was illegal for them to actually collect that health information or to give medical advice. So they entered into contracts with the airlines, and the airlines, you know, received money from the government, and then they had their employees actually carry out this violation of privacy. Right. Because that way it can all happen without anyone getting in too much trouble.

Yeah, it’s all quid pro quo. So you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. Hey, I’ll give you an $80 billion bailout. Just make sure you lock down people’s travel and you follow our requirements for travel. I mean, it’s spot on. So every big industry is corrupted. It almost makes me want to say, after a certain point of money, wealth, success, reach, that you have to play this game. I’m sure venture capitalist funding private equity firms have something in that. This is why I think as entrepreneurs today, you really need to be careful about who you accept money from and not to give your company away because it can be used against you and then be used to control other people.

And, you know, make sure you read every line of a contract. There are two things I want to mention here. Like, one, I want to ask you, you mentioned integrating the data from multiple different data sets. Right. So in practical terms, like, if you are an American and you’re worried about them tracking you this way, what are the sources of data that they’re inputting into their AI models? Yeah, so the most primary source info I can give you is from police departments using Palantir’s Gotham. And so Los Angeles Police Department is one really big one. And so is this what came out of the pilot in New Orleans? Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, New Orleans is using that same software. This Gotham software, to give more context, is kind of like the universal surveillance for police departments within a city. It’s one of the flagship products of Palantir offers. It’s used in New Orleans for predictive policing. Right. And it’s used in many police departments across the United States. And I Think many more that we just don’t know about because there hasn’t been a FOIA request. But in Los Angeles, they had a system that was feeding from every traffic camera, from every police department, from universities, cameras at the universities themselves, from libraries, and those are all public institutions.

But I, so, so that’s one aspect. And so what they could do with this system is if they have a list of suspects. Well, one they’re feeding from Department of Motor Vehicles or Department of Public Services. So they have information on everyone and what car they’re driving. So let’s say you’re John and the, the date of birth as well. Right. And contact information. Exactly. Last known address, even who’s in your family, associates. The systems are built to track all of it. So let’s say I want to find John Smith in suspicion for some sort of crime.

Okay. Hey, where’s John Smith at? All right, well, let’s look. We know what car he’s driving. Let’s see if it got flagged at any traffic camera around the city. Oh, he, we saw one today at 2pm going this way. So he’s there and then you can actually click and drill into him and see. All right, who is John associated with? What are. What’s been. What’s shown up on police reports that, you know, other people have been involved, who are his close family members, what cars do they drive, where do they live, where do they work? So it can go on and on and on, and it’s supposed to assist with any investigation, but it’s obviously such a powerful tool.

How could you trust so much data and power in the hands of a police department? And who are they sharing that data with? Is it feeding to a central federal level Palantir database? I think those are the questions we should be asking ourselves. Now, what about other sources of information, like social media posts, for example, or utility bills, banking things, things like that? I don’t. So I couldn’t say to you that that is for sure happening. But everything is fair game. This is a private contract between two private companies, you know, facilitated by the, the local government.

But any two companies can make a data sharing agreement. It’s very, it’s very common. It’s very standard. So there’s no reason why Palantir or the police department couldn’t, couldn’t decide, hey, like, what’s the budget to get the water services department? Okay, let’s reach out to them or let something. Set something up so that there is a regular ongoing process where they send the data in. I don’t know how useful that would be. Like, they kind of decide their own objectives. But the thing we’re going to see over the next two years is this grow and grow into more things.

This is a good. Like, this is a good example of something that I know for sure is happening. Flock cameras, which are automatic license plate readers. This is not palantir. This is a separate company doing this. There’s multiple companies trying to do this. And what their cameras are set up to do is to look at a car and pick up the make, model, license plate. Of course, even, like, if it’s got a ding in the door, it’s got a dent. Bumper stickers and they have. It was. This happened a few months ago. Home depots and, like, around the entire country are using this technology in their parking lot.

So if you drive to a home depot, like, you’re on that database somewhere. Right? Right. And it’s actually more than that. Right. Because hoas have contracts with. For flock cameras. Right. Other facilities, like maybe assisted living facilities and such like that. Right. And of course, police departments and municipalities that are using it for traffic purpose. So. So there’s, you know, a growing dragnet, essentially, of scanning this, your license plate. Now, there’s some controversy about this on. On the interweb, so to speak. But in your opinion, could the flock cameras be modified in their software to also recognize facial features? There’s no reason why they wouldn’t and that why they couldn’t.

But they’re probably the types of cameras there are. They’re probably much farther back. You might need more. Better optical quality at range. So I. I think it would be easy for them. Right. Once they have the agreement in place, it’s very easy for them to produce another camera. And if you want to see how many cameras they have, you, can use a website like dflock me. So let’s use. Let’s use Colorado as an example. This is really crazy, Andy. Like, try to get around. It’s like a game. This is a website called dflock me. They publish freedom of information act requests.

And so you can actually go down. Okay. It’s a pretty big city. You can go down to individual cameras and see where they’re pointing. And then I want to create a game out of this. Right. Hey, go through the city without being spotted. Now, do you know about the chinese artist who did that? No, I don’t, actually. Yeah. So I. I don’t have the name or the details in front of me right now, But I included it in a recent master class so it’s an artist and he mapped out like a two block path to walk without being caught by a surveillance camera.

Because you know in China, right, you’re being watched everywhere. And the end they have facial recognition and social credit system. So it was like this most circuitous route. You know, take two side steps, then one back, you know, turn around 180 degrees, you know, make a semicircle. And he had a group of like 20 people following him, including some children, you know, like families and such so that they could just walk two blocks without being surveilled. And he had a lot of negative repercussions from the Chinese authorities about this after the fact that. But, but you know, it’s like that’s the state of things, right? And it seems like our government wants to model themselves off of China.

You know, China has one of the highest rates of CCTV cameras per person in the world. We’re going to get there, or at least they would like us to get there. But the good news is it does seem like it’s concentrated more in the cities. They, they’re not even trying to, but there is also nothing stopping them. So yeah, like you nailed it, Andy. You know, right now this infrastructure is being rolled out. If the laws change, this is going to be part of the grid that holds people accountable. So it’s very scary to think about.

And yeah, in terms of solutions, you know, I know there’s, there’s people who want to just take down these cameras and I say that that’s probably not the right solution because. Because they’ll just go and put up another one and then you’ll probably get in trouble as well for that. Yes, as tempting as it would be to get your shotgun and take those cameras out, it’s not advised and it probably will be illegal because already, for example, if you try to cover your license plate with you know, even some kind of coating or something to fool the flock readers, that’s actually already against the law on the books so you can end up with criminal charges for these things.

It’s a scary world we’re moving into and I have faith in that. All this preparation, it’s a sign of desperation from their part and something big is coming that no one could predict. This is their way of really hanging on to their power. Let me ask you, how important do you think the digital ID is in the development of this full on surveillance state and digital ID will make it possible. And this is a good point you meant you asked earlier about biometric recognition. So if enough People give their biometrics out, which a digital ID essentially can be created for you if you give over your biometric identity along with your legal identity at the same time.

So when that happens and you give it over, there’s nothing else that needs to happen. That digital ID can be created for you. The government can create it for you and have it on hand to be used within these cameras. But I think that digital ID is the next Covid level scam. I recently did a digital ID report where I looked at digital ID around the world. So I looked at all the different continents and I wanted to answer, is there a place you can go that is not doing this? And the answer was no, not unless you go to a super war torn country or you go to the Amazon rainforest.

It’s happening everywhere. Now, are you familiar with, there’s a very small country in Central Africa, a landlocked country, that opted out of the digital ID in terms of dealing with the UN and then their IMF loans were pulled, but they decided to create their own voluntary digital ID where they guarantee privacy. Are you familiar with that story at all or. Actually, I’m not. That didn’t come up in my research. I’m interested in learning about it. Well, I’ll definitely send you the details, but is it even possible to have this type of technology and still preserve privacy? You’re qualified to answer that question, I think.

Yeah. They position it as if you are in control of what information you share. But just like with every other piece of technology they built, it’ll be very opaque. You don’t really understand how the internals work. And if there are safety guidelines, if there are trace safety guidelines, you have to trust that they will follow them and you have no way to verify it. So. Sound, it sounds familiar, right? It’s like what we just went through the past five years, right? And even if, let’s say that there is an honest government that puts this into place, well, what happens when the next government comes into power? Right? They could totally change it and maybe not even tell you about it.

Right. So. So we have to really. It sounds like we, we really need to protect our information. Now you mentioned that the recipe for a digital id, right, Is your biometric data plus your legal form of ID simultaneously being collected. Right. Now, the place that I think of immediately where that occurs is at the airport with TSA’s voluntary facial scanning program. Yeah, it does happen there. You’re right. And I didn’t even think about that. I mean, of course the facial scanning at the TSA Airport. But to think about it being an ingress to digital id, that’s now possible.

That what I was thinking more about were the banks, but absolutely, at the airports, you know, if you’re in one of those programs, what do they call it? TSA PreCheck or Clear you, there’s enough information there to create a digital ID for you. And what I believe is going to happen, which is the same thing that happened with contact tracing, I think 20, 27, there’s going to be more of a push, like, okay, hey, we have, we have the technology. Hey, there’s all these businesses accepting it now. Use it. Come on, guys, use it. And oh, hey, you already.

We have this information on file for you. We went ahead and created you one. So that’s what happened in Italy. They created 40 million digital IDs just because they had people’s biometrics. It’s what they did in Denmark as well. So it’s very important to really keep your, your person sacred and avoid, avoid this combination of your legal and biometrics being handed over. Now, like, some people have pushed back and said, hey, but I mean, when you’re walking around the street or these flock cameras, they could collect your biometrics, right? Well, they can, but it doesn’t. My thought is that it doesn’t create the concrete legal precedent.

They need to actually make digital ID a useful thing to actually say, hey, this is that person. They kind of need the system to work in that way, Right? So that’s why, you know, I thought about tsa, because you’re, you’re showing your legal ID at the same time you’re giving your biometrics, right? And, and the banking industry is another great example. Like, I know in other countries, like in Mexico, a friend of mine recently tried to open up a bank account there and they wouldn’t allow a new account without biometric scanning. And with my own banking, like on my banking app, right, has this option of facial id, right? And it, and it, and it puts the button really close to where you put in your password.

Like, it’s really easy to hit it by accident. Like, it’s really trying to encourage you, right? Just like with paperless billing, they’re always trying to get you to participate in that. But, you know, I’ve heard you talk about a really important concept, which is that the government doesn’t have to require any participation. It could be, and we, we touched on this already, right? It can come from private industry. So the banking industry, for example, could just require, in order for you, to have an account, you have to have a digital id. And that would not be even against the protective laws that are already on the books about like digital privacy and such, because they, the law just says, well, don’t get an account there.

But if every bank is doing that, then you can’t have a banking account at all. Yeah, this is, this, this mandate by proxy is how it’s going to roll out in the West. It’s the way of having that deniability. We didn’t tell you to do it, but you still did it, your fault. And so we see this in India, where it was a Supreme Court ruled a few years into their digital ID program, no Indian should lack any rights or freedoms for not having a digital id. But by that time it was too late because they didn’t, they didn’t say that up front.

So banks were demanding it. There was phone companies that were hounding people. They were literally saying, hey, send us your Aadhaar id. That’s name of their system, Send it to us or we’re going to cut off your phone service. And it got to the point, like I tried to define what a complete system looks like and to me that’s 60% of people in a country actively using it. And so in India, they’ve gone all the way to the end where like a landlord will ask to see that as a means of verification. So people are imposing it on each other and that’s the final step.

That’s where, you know, people in that society are doomed to be a slave to that digital ID system. Now, are you aware of any, you know, outside, like agristic marketplaces popping up in India as a response to this? That’s, that’s a really good question. I, I don’t off the top of my head, but I think that every country has its own gray market. And I think as things get more ridiculous, like people start to get the stick side of this carrot and stick game we’re playing, I think those will naturally start to form. And to your point, like, these gray markets are really important.

The best thing anyone could be doing right now is going out, connecting with your community and saying, hey, I have this to offer. You have that. I just want you to know this thing is going on. Whatever happens between us, I’m never going to impose that on you and please don’t do the same to me. That’s a excellent, excellent idea. What about devices spying on us? Devices will also be the way that this is implemented. It’s a really big part of it. You know, I’m sure you’ve, you’ve heard of Apple’s official digital ID functionality coming to their phones.

And this is very late stage surveillance. So the way most of the surveillance happens, I’ll say the 80% of mass surveillance happens is through the hands of these big tech companies. So a few trends we’re seeing right now is cloud first. So if you are taking photos on an iPhone, it’s going to icloud before it gets saved to your phone. It is automatically being analyzed with AI, which is a feature called enhanced visual search, which we can talk about. Google is doing the same thing, Microsoft is doing the same thing. It’s crazy. You have a text file on your computer, you’re writing a shopping list, you save it.

The default is to save to the cloud. So we’re getting to that very late stage surveillance where everything you’re doing on your computer is surveilled, is being tracked by AI and being fed to similar palantir like systems within these companies themselves. And it all happens because we consent to it. We chose a device that comes with these abusive software services. Now is there any way to limit, like with one of those devices, can you limit the surveillance? I mean like even if you use icloud, right? Or is icloud automatically mean that everything’s gonna be scanned, there’s no to opt out of it? Or can you, you know, is saving the images directly on the phone beneficial? There’s, there’s always nuance in how each company runs their products and services.

For icloud the most, the scariest thing I think was this enhanced visual search, which doesn’t just apply to the photos on icloud, it also applies to the photos just on your phone. In general, if you have an iPhone, you can go to apps photos then within those settings at the bottom, if you scroll to the bottom, you’ll see this option called enhanced visual search. If you haven’t ever looked at it before, it’s probably on. Why? Because they built this feature and what it does is that it looks through your photos for landmarks like the Statue of Liberty or the Eiffel Tower and it recognizes them, it matches them up with Apple’s database.

And so that’s. They say it because it makes it easier. Oh, let me go to that Paris trip where we got the Eiffel Tower. And it thinks that it’s useful for you to search like that. No, that’s not the reason why they’re doing it. They’re doing it because now they can detect the location of Any photo on earth simply from the buildings that are nearby. That’s my intu. Like that. That is what it could be used for. The technology. And they rolled this feature out with no announcement, no blog posts, no notification. They just did it.

It wasn’t even a blog post. Right. So that just goes to show you, they don’t. They don’t. This, you’re a customer that who pays the money. They treat them like a child, like an object that they can just. We’re going to do this. And it sounds like also that this is a way to capture information even if other sources are turned off. Like your location services, for example. Right. Which is another way that they can, you know, do geofencing. Yeah, the location’s a really, really big piece of it. And unfortunately, nowadays GPS is no longer a thing.

We use these WI fi positioning systems and what those are doing are collecting all the WI FI routers near you, testing the signal strength, and sending those back to Apple and Google. So that’s how we’re able to have super accurate location indoors nowadays. The problem is, is that these companies are sitting on billions of WI FI access networks. And you can actually, it’s. You can do some crazy things with the data. Some researchers found that Apple left the. Left this WI fi positioning system open. So they just kept searching for WI FI networks. They got to 2 billion of them and they tracked it over time.

And they saw, for instance, like Palestine, they saw a bunch of WI fi routers disappear from the places that were under heavy bombardment in Palestine. Or they saw people who were being forcibly recruited in Ukraine leave Ukraine with their WI FI routers. So there’s things like that. So you can monitor it for the effectiveness of your military assault? Most definitely. I mean, yeah, one application. But in other words, you can confirm if a target’s been taken out, at least with some degree of accuracy. Yeah, that’s a good point. Taken out offline, the power goes out. Anything that makes like, makes that WI FI route or not online.

And the one thing I want to just add is that it doesn’t really like the settings on a phone like an iPhone. They’re kind of just there as a security theater. You could put your phone on airplane mode. And I’ve heard people say that I’m still picking up rob radio signals from an iPhone. We’re testing it with a meter now. I haven’t confirmed that myself, but these are just, these are just settings. And because none of the code is open or transparent, you can’t really confirm that it’s doing what it says it’s doing. And there’s been independent studies going back to 2021 showing that even if you pick the most private settings, it’s still sending a ton of data every five minutes.

Now what, what if you use like a shielding device? It’ll help with some things. So even that is not foolproof. Well, so what ends up happening is so you put in the shielding device, it can’t connect back to the towers, but it’s, it’s. If it’s on, or maybe even if it’s not on, it’s still listening and it’s just collecting that data, you know, and these guys, they have nothing to do. They have billions of dollars. And so the best engineers on the planet, you know, there’s an accelerometer, there’s a gyroscope on this thing. Like there’s other ways to kind of detect where you’re, where you’re going.

Now I’m not saying that’s happening for sure. I don’t have the proof. I just, I will speak to programs when I have the proof. But I’m just saying the possibility exists even if your phone’s in a certain. Essentially what you’re saying is that as a surveillance device, your phone has a lot of built in redundancy and it’s really hard to completely defeat. Yeah. Especially if you’re using big tech tools and operating systems. So what is the solution that you came up with? And I think this is the time we should talk about above, like what’s your role in that operation and what can you tell us a little bit about what your devices offer? Sure.

So we started a privacy company in 2021, late 2021. I’m the founder and CEO and the founding team is all from within the movement, all working on community, community movements. Before that. We decided to turn our attention to this and what it is. It’s a set of private solutions for your phone and laptop built on top of open source technology. This is what the phone looks like. And so this is what they call a de Googled phone. It is running an open source operating system called Graphene os, which is not the graphene in the shots, guys, that’s graphene oxide.

This is graphene, the nanomaterial that comes from pencils, graphite. And it’s just a very strong nanomaterial. And that’s what this operating system is focused on. It’s very high security. At the same time, it’s very usable. Like Andy, if you’ve used an Android phone or if your Audience has. It’s very, very similar to that. Right. So swipe up to see your apps, swipe down to see your notifications, like that kind of thing. And then what’s really cool are all the different privacy features you have so you can turn off your microphone and camera for the entire device.

You have complete control of the permissions for your apps. And then you also have a lot of lower level security improvements that will. They’re just very strict on the data apps have access to. They only have access to the memory that they’re supposed to use. And so that makes it a very secure phone for like, let’s say someone stole your phone and tried to pull the data off it. They wouldn’t be able to unless you left it unlocked. So there are a lot of security improvements that I can talk about. But the important things to mention are that this phone will work with any cell service anywhere in the world.

You can use the SIM card that you’ll, you can plug into it, easy five, ten minute process. Or you can use an ESIM as well and just have it activated completely online. And so it could be used anywhere in the world. And then the apps, where do you get your apps from? Now, hold on a second, Hakeem. Let’s talk about the, the ability to, to. So you’re saying you basically go to your cell provider and get a SIM card and cell service from them and then you just pop it in this phone. Now is that, did you.

Your, your older models did not have that functionality, Is that right? Is this a new feature? So the E Sims are new, but all of the phones we sell today will work with both. So you can always, you can always put the SIM card in and then. Yes, so some people, they want to keep their number and like this is, they’re switching all the way over. They’re ready to throw their Apple away and they’re switching to this phone. So they will switch their number over. Some people want to do the transition thing and they want to keep the iPhone for family and friends and FaceTime and they’ll get a new service for this one.

We also have our own service as well, which is data only. So there are a lot of options. Also this is, you’ll appreciate this, Andy, is you can use this phone just connected to WI fi only. And there are different solutions like a voice over Internet number that will let you have a phone number, but it, it can be connected to WI Fi. Or here my house is wired for Ethernet, so I can actually make phone calls with zero radiation negligible. Radiation coming from the phone. But that requires you to have a WI FI signal, right? Yes, a WI fi or an ethernet.

So we sell Ethernet adapters that you can plug a wire into or yes, a WI FI signal. And of course, if you leave the house outside of that WI FI range, you don’t have signal anymore. So you have to be in range of a WI fi cafe or at home. Right. Or perhaps have a hotspot that you can use out in public. Absolutely. So it sounds like it gives you a lot of flexibility now in terms of like the telecom companies spying on your calls and text messages. Is there any difference between using those different approaches with the phone? Yeah.

So with this phone, one of the things it does is it makes zero connections to big tech. We’ve audited this. We audited it regularly. And so what we’re doing is we’re cutting Google and Apple out of the equation. We’re cutting them out completely out of the equation. The telecoms, due to Communications Assistance and Law enforcement act of 1994, are required to ensure that they can hand over phone calls and text messages. And there’s secret surveillance programs like Hemispheres which are collecting everything en masse. So there’s phone calls and texts aren’t private and we need to quickly shift over to encrypted messaging.

I know that’s a big ask for a lot of people. There’s some people still, you know, people still need to use phone numbers in the meantime. So this phone gives you solutions for both worlds. So the Internet phone number is more private because you can connect to the WI fi and it’s not connecting to your nearest cell tower and sending the text that way, which is a thing that they look at for call records. But to make things less complex than I am, it increases your privacy. But if you really want true private communications, do not use phone calls and text messages.

Use. Is there, is there an app for encrypted voice calls that you recommend? Absolutely, I have a few. There we go. Yeah. So there’s two that you can use. This. The first one is. This is a messaging protocol called xmpp. Its original name was Jabber. Some of you might remember it from the 90s. The name did not age well. But, but I, I really love this protocol because it’s free and open source. And the thing is, it’s equal. Everyone’s equal. Anyone can set up their own server. They can do it for, for free or next to nothing.

And they can. You can already audio call and video call people. In fact, people don’t know this, but WhatsApp underneath the hood is just this. It’s literally just this. No. So you saying that you can call someone’s phone number or they have to also have this app installed? Yes. So you can do both. So there’s two things that we offer. We have an optional selection. We have an optional suite of privacy services of which encrypted messaging is one of those things. And so you’ve got the encrypted messaging, there’s also another Internet phone number that you can get on top of it, and that’s what lets you use this app to also dial out the phone numbers.

So, for instance, I got this nice text from someone. They sent me, like a nice message, and I probably don’t want to share their phone number, but you can. You can message people using their phone numbers through this app. And so you get to pick out a US or Canada phone number. So you can call them, you can text them, they can call you. From their perspective, it looks like a completely normal number. That’s amazing. You can also do the encrypted super private messaging, for instance. I’ve got one with my partner here that I’m doing. And you know, you can do.

So when you have both, people are on the encrypted messaging, you can do video calls, you can do file sharing, and everything is end to end encrypted. Gotcha. So for your top secret conspirators, that’s who you. That’s what you use. Exactly. And what I’ve done is like how I personally use it. I mean, I have it installed on my phone and laptop and it’s just great if I need to send sensitive info or files between one computer to another. Oh, so wait, you can put this on your laptop as well. You got it. So this is what it looks like on the laptop.

So this is the app on the laptop. And so this is really cool. So this is a text message with my partner. And so I’m actually going to show you. Let’s do this. Let’s use this view. I’m actually going to show you. I’m going to record a message to my partner, and you’ll see it show up on the laptop at the same time. Hey, Cruiser, I’m on call with Andy and it’s going really well. So you can see that. I’m glad to hear that, but I wasn’t really worried. Yeah, so you can see it shows up on both.

So it lets you. It actually lets you kind of has that imessagesque feature where you can text from your laptop, which is really, really cool. Right, right. That’s awesome. So what about apps that we might use for business purposes like you know, Slack and Zoom and Monday and you know, like project management or those kind of things. Can you get install those apps on the above phone? Absolutely. So there is an, there’s a private version of the Google Play Store, it’s called Aurora Store. And we, we know this developer well and we work with him and we donate to him to make sure.

Oh, so you’re saying you can get TikTok and Instagram and all those things? Yes, they will, they’ll still work on the phone. It’s like you have the freedom to install these things. So for instance, you searched, you were asking about Monday. Let’s look up that one. Here’s the Monday app. And I’m going to. That’s my least. As a, you know, entrepreneur, that’s my least favorite app. I have to tell you though, what’s your most favorite? Well, I mean I spend the most time in Slack, but it’s just because in Monday tells me how much work I have to do and when it has to be done by.

Yep. I. These tools are really important for anyone running a business. So. So all right, so here’s, here’s Slack. And so here’s what I love about it, Andy, is that it will give you informed consent of what you’re putting on the phone. So, so normal app stores, they don’t bother to do this. But if you scroll down past the reviews, you can actually see if there are any third party companies in the app you’re using. So Slack doesn’t. They’re using these two analytics kits which, which these look like they’re error reporting and analytics Bug Snag and Sentry.

So it gives you visibility into which other companies are on there now. Slacks. This is like, this is coming from building mobile, mobile apps. This is decent. A company the size of Slack has to do, they have to do error reporting. Right, Right. This is why they’re in there. But let me use another example. Like this random app that’s always on the front page, Polybuzz Chat. And so a normal app, if people you know, are downloading games or just whatever app you know, they’re shopping on the Play Store or on the App Store, this is what happens.

They download an app with 31 different companies in it. 31 different companies. And so what these are doing is if you give a permission to the app, you’re also giving that same permission to the 30 companies. So right when people are, are trying to figure out, hey, how is. How are the same ads. How am I, how is what I’m talking about showing up on the computer? This is how. Because Facebook is embedded in it. All these ad platforms are embedded in the apps that we use. So at least you’re starting to get visibility and can make better decisions about on your phone.

So you may not want to install Polybuzz. Nah, definitely not. And, and so you, you start to get visibility into those things. And so what I recommend for people and what is on the phone by default are apps from F Droid. Now this is an open source app catalog. And the requirement to be in this catalog is that all of the code for your app needs to be visible and transparent. So now those, those tracking companies, they never publish their code. So those are out of the equation. And so you have a lot of different things that you can find on this app store.

Now you can find an alternative, right? If you wanted to find chat apps, they’re on there. There’s many different things you can use. But the good news is that we’ve already found all the best apps so you don’t have to spend your time researching. So we have, for instance, apps to watch YouTube more privately and get new features that you would normally have to pay for. Pay like $9 a month for, you can get for free. You have beautiful image viewers that you can use that kind of remind you of iPhone. You have navigation apps that will let you navigate anywhere completely offline, which is really cool.

Wait for this guy to load. You can start building your own map of the world. And I’m just running through these. There’s probably one that you’re, you’re interested in. Well, you have all that. If, if I may, because they’re, you know, one thing that I want to say is that, you know, I’ve heard you talk about this before, right. So it seems like this device, it works with all three different layers of surveillance, right? Like the telecom companies, depending on how you use it, of course, the operating system itself. Right. Which is pretty foolproof compared to Google and Apple or Android and Apple and then the apps.

And it seems like you’ve really done a lot of work to kind of curate the best apps with the best functionality. Is there a community of users exchanging their experiences and other resources as well? Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for recognizing that there is. We have a private community. Actually, I should probably join it on this phone as well. But it’s a group that you get the invite link to and you can join and you can experience it in this app. We’re also on Telegram just because sometimes that’s more accessible for people. So we do have a community group there that you can chat with other people.

We also do a lot of community programming like we do, we do a webinar almost every month and so those are live streamed and everyone can join. So there’s lots of ways to get in touch with the community. Right. So you’re not going to buy one of these devices and then just be thrown to the wolves and figure it out on your own. Like some people are like really scared of Linux for example, because of that. Right. But this we’re talking about here, you know, a supported community that all of the, the major things that, that you want to know about how to use this device, you know, similarly to how you’re using your current phone.

Sounds like you’ve put that all into place. Right? So with respect to the apps, there is one other type of app I want to just ask about briefly and then perhaps we can draw some conclusions, but it’s with file sharing because I also heard you talk about G Drive and Google’s file sharing and I noticed that virtually everyone I’ve collaborated with in the truth space uses this application. Right, to share stuff, including videos like this. Right. So what are the risks there and what are the best alternatives? So the risks are that everything you’re doing is being monitored automatically understood by Google’s AI infrastructure and they use that to detect child abuse and different things like that.

But that, that is always a part of everything you’re doing. Google knows what you’re working on and in some cases it can remove content without your knowledge, which has happened to people. It’s happened to student journalists ironically enough. And so you’re really putting your entire life in their hands and saying, I know you’re a big company, you’ve we trust you with this. Which I’ll also say cloud storage is hard. So what we’ve been encouraging people is a local first type of solution where all of the files stay on your device and there are different things you can do to sync devices with each other.

Then we have also built a tool that lets you share files between computers. It does it one at a time. It’s not like a, it’s not like a permanent long term storage, but it is ephemeral. This is what that looks like. So this is the above share app and you can use this to just drop any sort of file in here, grab my PowerPoint, throw it in there and then you determine who has access to that folder or you. And you can set up a whole folder architecture system. There aren’t folders per se, but there are like share links.

And so what you can do is you, you, you publish it and then you can get a link that you can share with anyone. You get a QR code, you can get a link and then they can just download this. So this file will stay live for seven days and please, from then then it gets removed. So that’s one aspect of sending files. I think what you’re really asking for though is something like long term. Right. That you can have. Well, you know, this is for like, I mean in my team we use this for collaboration.

Right. Of. So we’re, you know, working on something together or like my video editor is working on, you know, an interview like this. Right. And then there’s a preliminary edit and then he shares it with other people on the team who then make suggestions on how to make some changes to it. So we all kind of can either directly modify the file or at least have access to it in real time. Yeah, so we don’t have a tool that does everything, the storage and the editing and the collaboration. We don’t have something like that yet. But there are many companies that are attempting to build things like that and have things like that.

So for instance, Dropbox is one of those companies. Oh, that’s good. I was going to ask about Dropbox because I’ve been like using Dropbox personally since they were, you know, almost out of beta testing. Wow. Yeah. So, so, so apps like Dropbox will work completely fine. Any app you can think of, it will, it will work on the phone and it’ll work on the laptop. Most of it is browser based anyways these days. Right. So you can continue doing what you want to do. But Will like, if you pull up the Dropbox app, will it partner with 30 ad companies to.

I don’t think, I don’t think it’s that bad. It’s not that bad. I think it’s like reasonable. Here’s four trackers, analytics, something called adjust amplitude in Sentry, which is. This isn’t the reasonable realm. It doesn’t seem like it’s advertising, which is more of the scary thing for me. Most of these companies are just trying to ensure that things aren’t breaking down and they know how people are using the app. That’s something, you know, everyone’s gonna have to judge their own relationship with the app, but I, I don’t think it’s that bad and it’s serving like an important purpose for people.

So I say you can use it. Then here’s, here’s another important thing is like, if you wanted, if you really wanted to use Google apps, you also could. This is also cool. So like, for instance, if you wanted to get Google Drive, you could get that on our phone. However, it’s not going to work out of the box. And what you should probably do is you should probably put it on a separate phone within the phone, so you can create isolated pieces of your phone that are completely separate from the main phone and you can let that stuff live there.

Now this interesting. So that’s kind of like a PC simulator on a, on a Linux machine. Machine, right? Yeah, yeah. It’s like a simulator or virtual machine, but it’s actually real. Like this stuff stays on it. You know, this is, it’s on your storage. It’s just completely, it’s encrypted and it’s completely separate from the first phone, so they can’t access each other. All the ability you really have is just to clone apps over so you can see WhatsApp. Like, I consider that a big tech app. I would try to avoid using WhatsApp, but if you spent any time in Latin America, you know, it’s almost impossible.

So this is where it would live. If I was in your shoes and I needed to use some apps like that for work, I’d create a little work profile in here and then I’d switch over to it when I needed to use tools like that on my phone, get my work done and then switch back. Which is also. It’s just a healthy, healthy boundary for your mind as well. That, that’s, that’s a really clever feature. Yeah, absolutely. And so, so, yeah, so if you wanted to use Google stuff, you can use it. You’d put it on the second profile and then you could install Google Services.

Right. Because it doesn’t come by default, you can install it. It’s still much safer than using it on a normal phone because it’s going from like on a normal big tech phone, it’s got like God mode over the entire phone can see everything that’s going on here. It’s just being, it’s just doing what it’s asked for, nothing else. Right. Because you’re not putting all your photos on that partitioned area. Right. So it can’t access that. You got it exactly right. Yeah. So you, when you give it the permission to look at your files, it’s just looking in the profile, it’s looking at nothing, essentially.

Exactly. Yeah. So, so this, this, this phone has a lot of different things that you can do with it in terms of permissions. You can also do that on the main profile. If you are like, you have any, you have any suspicions about an app, you can even tell it, hey, don’t give it access to my entire phone. Give it access to just this one folder for pictures. Just give it access to one folder. Right? So you can start making. This is called storage scopes. You can make decisions like that. You can also make the same decision for contacts.

Hey, WhatsApp, or Signal or Telegram or anything that keeps asking for contacts. I’m not going to give you my thousand contacts in my address book. I’m just going to give you the four I talk to on this app. And so, yeah, these are really easy to use and important features you can to. You can use to improve your. Those are like the things that I wondered, why didn’t they give you that optionality to begin with? Right. But you could see it’s because they want as much data as possible. It’s the association graph. You know, they say you’re going to be like the people you spend the most time with, and so they can really tell who you are by who you associate with.

So that’s very important data for them. So. Well, Hakeem, this has been like, I, I’ve learned a lot. I’m very impressed with, with your device in terms of the functionality, because I wasn’t expecting, you know, such a practical use case for it. So. And then you have, you know, all these amazing resources like the document on the digital ID and such. Just let me give you an opportunity to sort of make like a closing statement, you know, about overall, what’s the message that you really want to, you know, give people out there and then where, where else, you know, can they.

What’s the best place to find out more about these, these things? And of course, we’ll put all the links below. I think that we all have the power to take these, these things that are coming at us from all sides, which feel like weapons, and we have the power at any time to turn them into tools. And it’s up to us to start using the tools and to start building. So I hope that these devices help you with whatever you’re doing, whether it’s learning or building or starting your business. And so, yeah, this is where we’re in transition and so we need tools to reflect our intentions.

So 2027 is going to be A big year, I think on the milestone to 2030, just be very vigilant about who you share your data with and use tools like these to build the most valuable data set you can have, which is the human relationships and connections within your community. That’s way more valuable than the billions of gigabytes these big companies are sitting on. And so that’s the message I have. And if you would like to get an above phone or even a laptop. We just started our holiday sale today and here it is. If you go to abovephone.com Dr.

Kaufman. Dr. Kaufman. You’ll be able to check out our devices. We have several that are available for you. We have a laptop that is loaded with local private AI that you can use even if the grid is down. And it’s trained on millions of pages of natural health, natural health expert interviews and also survival information. Yesterday I asked it how do I dig a well? And it wrote me out a three page roadmap of what tools I need to buy everything. It was, it’s, it’s just incredible. So you can start to use this on our laptops.

You can also start to use it on our phones as well. And again, it’ll work offline. So our holiday sale is. We’ve been stocking up all year for this time of year and so we’re offering 500 bucks off different phones and devices. There’s extra discounts if you purchase two devices. So if you want you or a family member to be completely private in your communications, you can do that. You’re also getting a free month of the suite of software services that we offer, which is optional, but it’s recommended. It’s got many things in it like the vpn, the file sharing, the encrypted messaging, the video conferencing, the search engines.

It’s like eight different things that we have. You will get a free Kickstart call with a real person. About a third to half of our company are just people that really patient and wonderful people inside the freedom movement who will help you migrate from your old device to your new one. So they’ll help you activate your phone service if you have one. Move all of your files over, help you figure out what you need to do and how to use your new phone. So you get an hour with a real person and there’s always ongoing support.

If you chat with us, this is the way we encourage you to get in touch with us immediately. There’s a chat button on our website and there is a community call sometime in January for anyone who buys during this holiday season? So those are. That’s kind of our holiday sale. In terms of the phones, I recommend anything in the 9 Series. These can. These are updated until 2031, and it’s not like they stopped working after that, but it’s got a very long update lifetime, which is great. And then this laptop that I mentioned, this quantum laptop, now those are holiday specials.

I will mention that we have a. It’s been, it’s been really crazy for us this year. We may not get it in time for you by Christmas. That’s just kind of the reality of having a lot of people want these things and having a small business. But we will get it out as soon as possible. It’s possible to get it in January, so just note that it’s kind of late on in the process. And yeah, I would love to support you in your journey. If you’re interested in any of the content we talked about today, there is the Digital ID report, which you can go to abovephone.com digital or just find it in our navigation bar.

It’s a 30 page report that details everything you need to know about digital id. You’ll be very informed. We also have an ebook on privacy settings you can change on your normal phone if you’d like to. And then if you want to follow any of my content, I do a weekly show on substack called the T Bot Show, Take Back our Tech show. And this is a free educational thing I do. Releasing. Releasing new content every week. So if you’re interested in that, that’s where I am. So, yeah, thanks for letting me pitch myself there. Absolutely.

And those are a lot of resources for people to take advantage of. And I love your closing message. Hakeem, it’s really been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for watching. Blessings.
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See more of Andrew Kaufman, M.D. on their Public Channel and the MPN Andrew Kaufman, M.D. channel.