Summary
➡ The text discusses the economic impact of government spending and the potential outcomes of reducing it. It suggests that cutting spending could lead to job losses and economic downturn, but continuing to print money could devalue the dollar. The text also explores the idea of revaluing gold to reduce debt and the possibility of using bitcoin as a reserve. It mentions a proposal for a strategic bitcoin fund and the potential for different regions to favor different forms of currency, such as gold or bitcoin.
➡ The text discusses the complex process of creating a new currency system, particularly for countries like India and China. It highlights the challenges of separating from the West’s financial systems and the need for careful, methodical planning. The text also mentions the geopolitical implications of such a move, including potential sanctions and conflicts. Lastly, it touches on the issue of inflation and the role of central banks in managing economic stability.
➡ The text discusses the economic situation, focusing on job creation, government spending, and the impact of these on the economy. It also touches on the role of major powers in supporting smaller economies like Canada. The conversation then shifts to the potential for job cuts in the government sector to increase efficiency, and the impact of such cuts on employment numbers. Lastly, it delves into the silver market, discussing the gold to silver ratio, the consumption of silver, and China’s willingness to pay a premium for it.
➡ A large silver producer has noted that smelters in China have been reducing their treatment charges for silver concentrate due to the existing premium. In the U.S., there’s been a lot of selling of silver, with some coins and bars being melted down into industrial bars. Despite this, there’s no evidence of large retail silver buying. The industrial use of silver, particularly in solar panels, is also highlighted, with Elon Musk’s vision of powering the U.S. with a solar grid requiring a significant amount of silver.
➡ The article discusses the current state of silver as an investment. It highlights that despite a lack of new supply and investment, silver remains a valuable resource, especially with potential interest from countries like Russia. The article also mentions the possibility of a precious metals exchange for better price discovery. Lastly, it emphasizes the importance of having a portion of one’s portfolio in precious metals like silver, given the current economic conditions and potential for growth.
➡ The text discusses the complexities of the current economic situation, particularly in relation to gold, silver, and other commodities. It suggests that the cost of extracting these metals is unlikely to decrease, and demand is expected to rise due to systemic issues. The text also touches on the challenges of creating a new currency or system, and the potential opportunities in infrastructure development and job creation. It concludes by emphasizing the importance of a positive, solution-focused mindset in navigating these challenges.
➡ The discussion revolves around economic changes and the importance of being prepared for them. It also highlights a unique silver minted statue of Ben Bernanke as a holiday gift idea. The conversation ends with a forecast for silver prices and a mention of First Majestic Silver’s new mint bullion store. The speaker encourages everyone to enjoy their Thanksgiving and promises to return with more updates on Monday.
Transcript
Well, hello there, my friends. Chris Marcus here with you for Arcadia Economics. Tom, do hope you’re getting set for a wonderful, safe, healthy and happy Thanksgiving coming up and will be a nice break and good chance to reflect on the things that are going well this year and at this particular point in your life and especially if you’re a gold and silver investor. Quite a good year it has been. And for today’s show, we’re going to do something a little different because I was actually a guest on Today’s Take, Hosted by Andrew O’Donnell on his market Mindset channel and gave good overview of a lot of the things that have happened this year, what I’m expecting heading into next year and maybe like a State of the Union silver address.
So for today’s show, we’re going to replay that here, hope you enjoy it and again, have a great Thanksgiving. We will be off Thursday and Friday, but here’s something to leave you with as we head towards the holiday. Happy Wednesday, everyone. We’re here at the Market Mindset. Today’s Take Live with Chris Marcus from Arcadia Economics. We love talking with you, big fan of your work and your knowledge base. We’re gonna tap into all of it today. We’re gonna try to hold on to you as long as possible to talk about all things silver. And boy, there’s a lot to talk about.
We’ve had such a great run for a while and then of course, a little bit of a pullback. And I always, I always like to laugh because people think, oh my God, it’s pulling back. That’s it, it’s done, it’s over. And I’m sure you’ll, you’ll fill us in on the opportunity that awaits us moving forward here. And we’re going to talk about a whole bunch of different stuff here. So enough of me yammering on. We’re going to talk about China, we’ll talk about debt, we’ll talk about, you know, you name it. We’ll also try to reach out on here as well.
I’m getting better at reading any questions that come in and I’ll do my best to get to those as well for Chris. But Chris, how you doing? What’s going on? Andrew, great to see you again as always and thanks for having me here. And it’s funny you mentioned gold gets down to $2,600 and maybe somewhat expectedly people are wondering what’s happening. It’s collapsing and it’s over. It makes you think about taking a step back in the perspective and remembering where we were coming into the beginning of the year around $2,000 gold. We were hearing markets pricing in six or seven rate cuts.
I would suggest if someone had said, well, you were going to get two, maybe three and they weren’t going to start until September and you’d still seen gold go up $800 at one point has pulled back a little bit since the Trump election, which another fascinating subject we can dig into. But given those conditions and the fact that we’ve seen a 6% rally in the dollar index just since the Fed me Fed’s September meeting alone, I would say silver above $30 and gold above $2,600 is a good thing, especially for anyone who’s been following this over the past two decades.
But yeah, plenty, plenty happening and a lot of fun things to dig into today. Absolutely. Let me just mention here as well, you have a new substack as well. So maybe we can pull that up. So if you want to get insights daily from, from Chris, do you have a substack now? I find that substack actually is a great platform for people to share work and to do a blog. It’s so much easier. So it’s great to see you on there. So everyone you know, you’ve we’ve got his website up. We will post that as well.
Of course there’s the YouTube which I think a lot of people know you from, but the substack that’s new and that’s going to be daily for people as well. Yeah, we started that a little bit over a month ago and obviously for people who are watching what’s happening with the debt and the currencies and sense that we’re perhaps in the beginning of a longer term trend and accompanying what I think will have to be a shift in the monetary arrangement, we wanted to create something, obviously we need to do the videos, but we wanted to put out a piece that you can read in under five minutes a day and be pretty well versed in what’s going on, especially as things develop at a time where half of the world is going to great lengths to try and reduce their dependence on the dollar.
And now we’re, gee, when you look at what’s happened in the past two weeks, especially since the Trump victory, at least if any of what is being discussed now ends up happening, really looking at what could be one of the biggest periods of change economically in quite some time as well. So at least this is a way that, you know, if you want to have the key highlights and be able to get that in a rather quick period of time, when I understand people are busy with a lot of things to do and anyway, that was what we’re aiming for there and appreciate you sharing that.
No, of course. Well, I, I couldn’t agree more. It’s so critical nowadays and, you know, you’ve been around the markets for a long time. I have as well. But truly this is a pivotal point in history. I don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow, the next six months, but certainly, like you said, there’s a lot lining up and it’s necessary to have access to other than mainstream news, which we will leave alone people that are doing the research and looking specifically at, say, silver, for example, commodities, so that they get all sides of the story of what’s developing and what’s going on.
So maybe here, what’s this? I don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. I thought you were going to give us the scoop. Scoop on exactly which tariffs and which cost cutting measures are going to be put in place. Oh, I know, I, I know, but I’m just, I’m just being humble. Fair enough. No, well, there’s so much happening and on a good side and, and a big question mark. We know that there’s change coming and the narrative also with a lot of change happening, some of it doesn’t change. I mean, we can start say with, with China and can maybe talk about brics as well, because that narrative, like that’s not changing.
They’re still dumping dollars and Japan’s dumping dollars and they’re looking at commodities. So let’s, let’s just start here because there’s a ton of stuff. Let’s start with the, the latest economics stimulus from China. Was it 1.4 trillion they pumped in? Yeah, I believe it was 1.4 trillion over five years. And I think that was going to the local governments to support them. They’ve had a couple of packages that have come out in the past month or two. I mean, this kind of leads into, you know, nice money printing on their side. I was, I would think, no matter what cost savings and changes that they’re going to do on the US side.
Well, let me ask you this. Is there any benefit for the new administration coming in to go, let’s really tighten up and not print money? Well, and you said you were talking about the US in terms of the new administration. Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, sure, there’s a benefit. I mean, you have a wildly soaring debt load that has just gone unchecked. And Andrew, I might add, we’re also now about 40 days away from the suspension of the debt ceiling limit expiring. So there’s, there’s that coming up, which I found it interesting. Of course, nobody asked either of the candidates about that before the election, which would have, I would have been interested to hear that.
Also, if you just Google debt ceiling, there’s not much coverage coming out. I assume that we’re going to get to the, you know, 40 days from now and then they’ll say, oh, well, what are we going to do now? If we want to keep the credit rating, we have to raise the debt ceiling limit. So there’s that amongst a whole variety of other trends. Debt, interest, expense, over a trillion dollars now. And so the idea of cutting spending is something that needs to happen in one sense and from the free market economist part of me, then you hear that and not doing bailouts or quantitative easing on one hand, that seems necessary and great.
On the other hand, if you just do it as it is with 23% of GDB GDP coming from government spending. You know, if you, if you cut all those jobs, you’re going to have a lot of people out of work, you’re going to have an economic impact. So that’s what really got me into this even 15 years ago when I started in gold and silver, because you have two paths. One is that the Fed prints what increasingly the market won’t buy. The other is that, you know, you can let the thing go bust, which conceivably is what would happen if you did any cuts that are substantial enough to make a difference.
So in either scenario, you have, if you actually cut, you probably have your deficits going higher and I would say most likely, rather than even just probably have your deficits going higher. Additionally, let’s say that they did go that path. The dollar ultimately is backed by U.S. treasury debt. So now we’re talking about even if you do the cuts, you still have the dollar, but the asset backing it is losing value again. At the same time where an increasing portion of the world in the brics is showing an indication in terms of the de dollarizing really replacing the treasury as the storage mechanism, especially for the oil market.
So now where does that leave us? Obviously with two less than ideal outcomes. Although as many people who watch the show know, I’m a big fan of Luke Grohman and he’s talked a lot about this over the past year and he mentioned especially if you accept that inflation is coming, that the money’s been spent, it’s gone. It has to come from somewhere if you’re going, if you’re going to recapitalize a bankrupt system, that if you accept inflation is baked into the cake. What Luke pointed out is that if you just come in and cut spending, you’re going to have a deflationary crisis.
If they did do something like, and he was not saying specifically that this is happening, they’re going to do that, but he does mention that in the Fed’s accounting manual they do have a provision in there that allows them the treasury can call, have the gold certificates revalued higher and that money gets deposited in their account. So if you revalue gold higher with about 260 million ounces, so every thousand dollars higher wipes out a trillion dollars of debt. So if they did this, then paid down debt, you would have inflation. But then you could also conceivably get back to the point where you run a surplus and could it could be possible to then grow faster than you’re adding debt.
But right now you can say, well, let’s just grow the economy faster. Do something intelligent and certainly with Elon Musk in there, I think that interesting with at least our most successful entrepreneur in there now and hopefully we get some benefit from that. But if you have the debt growing faster than the gdp, it doesn’t matter if you do more of it. So that’s one possible way it could play out on a longer scale. You need some form of that. Unless they’re just going to sit there and let the treasury default, which still even at this point in time seems incredibly difficult to see to imagine happening now.
Do they do something proactive rather than waiting until we have the next crisis? There’s certainly more to suggest that that might be possible than at any point in my lifetime and we’ll see. But certainly what happens with those promises being made now is going to have a big impact in what happens in this point going forward. It is a very pivotal point and it’s hard to get one’s head wrapped around like some of these solutions and possibilities. I won’t even, or maybe I will just throw it out there. I saw something about this brainchild of a bitcoin trust.
You know, is it. Do you see that there’s like a counter argument or side where like maybe there’s, there’s bricks, which seems to be where commodities based. We’re looking more seriously at having some sort of polarized world in which we’re backed by commodities and the US saying, well, maybe we have this crypto stuff, we’ll stick with FIA and we’ll have a bitcoin reserve of some kind. Do you see that being an actual possibility? I mean, I’ve seen some articles, but as far as it being just a bitcoin bro kind of thing or a promotional type thing, what’s your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, that’s a great question because about, let’s say two months ago, Senator Thinker named Cynthia Loomis came out with a proposal to create a strategic bitcoin fund, which of course my first reaction is like, how do you have a sovereign wealth fund if you’re basically insolvent? Although of course, what I actually read through her bill and one of the ways she plans to fund it was with a revaluation of the Federal Reserve’s gold certificates, which.
Okay, so they’re already looking at that possibility and talking about it certainly seems like Trump is very pro bitcoin and you have the possibility that if government mandates that in some capacity in our financial system or as a reserve, you know, you do have that possibility. With that said, I think something I hear a lot, and Andrew, I’m sure you get this from time to time is there’s a tendency for people to assume it’s all one or all the other. It’s going to be gold or no, it’s going to be bitcoin. That’s it. Yeah, we see this in that debate with silver.
Where is silver still money or is it an industrial commodity? Well, there’s a lot of people out there in the world and many of whom some use it for one, some use it for the other, some use it for both. Perhaps you might be more insightful to think about the people who are undecided yet may conceivably invoke in one purpose or another where how is that going to break down yet similar with gold and bitcoin. Maybe the east chooses to use some sort of gold backing, maybe the west turns to bitcoin. I think they would. Within either of those scenarios, you’re going to have a balance.
Again, it’s not all one or the other, but at least in terms of what we can see so far the East. Andrew, did we talk about the unit the last time I was on with you? We did, but let’s take a step back and talk about that because we just had the last kind of meeting in Russia there with brics chatting about a bunch of different things that of course people complain, say, well, they didn’t formulize occurrence, they didn’t formalize a lot of things, but they did initiate a lot of things and there are things developing at a pretty rapid pace.
Why don’t you kind of talk, remind people about this, this, this, the unit here? Yeah, well, I think when people say they didn’t formalize the unit and are disappointed and walk away saying this was bs, I would say that maybe that wasn’t the right expectation to have. I did not necessarily expect a formalization, let alone a launching of it going into that meeting. Although what I was hoping for was some sort of confirmation of what Pepe Escobar has been reporting and also what a fellow named Matt Riley from EF Bullion told me personally about back in February, which is that there is a proposal and a white paper for something called the Unit which is quite detailed and lays out how it would include a 40% gold backing and the remaining basket is a mix of the currencies of the countries involved.
So Pepe Escobar has been saying, well here’s what Putin said about it, here’s what the new Development bank said about it. And so I was hoping more so just some sort of confirmation. It’s not just him saying it. And sure enough, the BRICS did did a demo of what they call the BRICS pay system, which imagine if you’re a citizen in a BRICS country and you go to another country and you can use your card and that works without dollar involvement. And they did a demo of that the week before the BRICS meeting. And then on their website for BRICS pay, they have a note list unit account issue under discussion and links directly to the white paper that has the 40% gold backing, 60% basket of currencies.
I’ve also in the last couple of weeks listened to a couple of Pepe Escobar’s Interviews, one of which came out before the BRICS meeting where he said this is a bit of a long term process. Maybe by 2030 is when you would actually have something like that up and running. Which, you know, I’ve tried to be careful in my reporting and what I’ve been seeing and hearing and not give the people the idea $10,000 goal tomorrow. Yeah. And it’s interesting, when I heard criticism of what happened at the brics, there was someone saying, well, you know, something like this would take decades and saying that almost as a reason negating that it’s possible.
And yet he simultaneously referenced how the euro took 10 or 20 years to set up. I don’t think these things are done easily or lightly. Also you have some countries perhaps such as India, that don’t want to say, all right, screw the west, we’re out. And one of the things that I’ve heard a lot of geopolitical analysts talk about is how they’re not trying to like give the West a new boogeyman to target and sanction. So they’re going at a very like delicate pace. Especially if you go to have the BRICS meeting and say, all right, we’re taking down the west, we’re going to destroy this dollar.
What message does that send to new countries that you’re bringing on into this organization? And then you potentially set them up as the perfect target to be sanctioned. So it’s a delegate process. I don’t think it’s going to be done tomorrow. There was confirmation though, at least on the BRICS pay website that they wrote it as issue under discussion. So hopefully that at least clears up a little bit of where that stands right now, makes me think, you know what people say like in regards to say the west, they say, well, we’re kind of like the frog in the boiling water.
They just turn up the heat a little bit over time and then all of a sudden too late, you’re being boiled. It almost seems like that’s kind of being done to the west as well, is that they are proceeding, there’s no doubt and the enormity of the undertaking is huge to try to do a new currency that works together. I mean, just as far as policy with each country, what’s it going to look like? I mean, formulating that product is exceptionally difficult. And then also untying yourself from some of the West, I mean all those things from banks and trades and this and that, it’s very, very challenging.
And just the fact that the conversations or meetings they’ve taken the Big steps. That’s, that’s, I think that’s, it’s huge. It’s, it’s like, it’s a big sign, but it’s almost like they’re just kind of getting used. People used to this idea. What’s that? You get used to it. Get used to it. We’re not going to just jump out in front because that would be like an announcement of war. Almost like if we just said, drop it, bomb, we’re separating this way it can be getting you people used to the idea, like, hey, this maybe might work well for everyone.
Like maybe you want another option rather than just a US Dollar denominated swift system. Maybe you do business in the east as well and you’d like to have one that’s outside of that. So I like this idea that, you know, they’re, they’re positioning themselves to not be, say, China or India or pressure that just go, hey, I’ll step out in the lead and you can smack me as, as hard as you can. It’s, you know, a, a delicate balance between some of these countries that don’t get along, but also to go, we, we need to formalize these things in a way that’s going to make sense and it’s, it bodes well no matter what.
And I, I think you’d agree for any precious metals, but especially for silver. Yeah. And you had a great point in there in terms of how some of the BRICS member nations don’t have the best relation and that, that was something I found really interesting in some of the reporting I heard of the event where a lot of the meetings were about, all right, when we have these two countries that have an internal conflict, how do we resolve this? How do we bring. In many ways it sounds ideally like what I wish the Western countries were doing.
How do we create an environment that different, different views are being respected rather than what we often see? So, yeah, there, there’s a lot of that happening. And, and I think that’s why it’s taking longer. It seems like it’s being done quite methodically. So that, I mean, I don’t get. Maybe there’s some degree to which Putin or Russia would love to stick it to the west, but I don’t think that’s the underlying emphasis. It’s not, here’s how we get you. It’s saying, hey, we’re getting killed by this system here. We need to do something differently. And now, of course, you could add in everything that’s been going on in Ukraine with Russia and Biden I believe it was Sunday, said they could finally use U.
S Missiles. There were reports even. Yeah. Tuesday that they went ahead and did them. So and then with China, you have the tariffs that the Biden administration has put on. So not the best of the situation right now yet even despite that, I don’t think that that’s the underlying emphasis. I think it’s more just we want to be able to grow our economies and not be held hostage to this system. Yeah. I mean there’s nothing, there’s no harm in that. Regardless of which way you sit on the world scale, you know, people should have a right to self determination.
And I would. Let me. What are your thoughts on this? Like a country like China, they’re a, they have the ability, let’s just say, to think very long term. They don’t have to have elections, they don’t have to really worry about, you know, that’s being authoritarian country, you can focus long term. So for them it would be we’ve got all the time in the world. We’re like this giant ship that’s moving. They’re doing with energy, they’re doing with all the nuclear power plants, are doing it with building out coal projects every two days or whatever. Like they’ve got a system that’s just going for them.
I could see them just saying we’re going to get this done, we’re doing it. The process is long. Whereas someone like a Putin might say we won’t hurry up, hurry up, hurry up and say, well just, just relax, we’re going to get this done. But we’ll do it properly, we’ll do it methodically because when we do it, it’s, it’s finalized, like it’s done. What are your thoughts? Like, what do you think? Does that sound like a, like a mindset? I mean it’s hard to read a mindset from a country, but they do have the luxury of having time on their side.
Yeah. Perhaps the only thing I would change there a bit is the tense in that. It’s not, well, we’re going to do this. They’ve been doing it, we’re doing it. Yeah. For the past 15 years. And also the idea that now they’ve created a way so they are not dependent on the dollar for their energy needs because they can buy oil and if an oil exporter doesn’t want to be sitting there holding yuan, they can go convert it into gold. So I think there’s people in the west saying, oh, maybe China will one day do this.
It’s, it’s happening. We’re seeing these things happen where the countries might start turning to gold because they’re worried about sanctions. We’ve seen it happening for the last two years. We had that relationship for a long time where you saw the inverse of interest rates and the gold price tracked very closely. That’s changed in 2022. What happened in 2022? We know the sanctions and getting kicked out of Swift. What else happened at that time? That’s when the big central bank gold buying started. So we’re seeing it happen. And meanwhile, to calm people’s fears, what do we have here at home? Jerome Powell in September says 25 basis points isn’t enough.
We’re going to cut 50 basis points while simultaneously saying that the economy is still strong. I don’t see any evidence of an increased likelihood of a downturn. And so. But he still felt it was necessary even after going zero in the July meeting. Then whatever happened in between there going 50 in September while the economy is still strong. So he chose, there’s the dual mandate of stable prices, maximum employment. So he chose to support the half of the mandate that he says is in great shape while inflation core CPI is still over 3%. I think it’s 42 or 43 months now.
So he also made a bunch of these statements. He’s like, well, you know, and if inflation doesn’t come back down as we anticipate. So he’s not saying we got it beat, it’s coming down. That’s why it’s safe to do it. I mean there’s more than a little trial and error. Again, not trying to pick on the guy, but this is the same one who told us inflation was transitory. So if you’re not sure and you’re going to tell us the economy is great now, what I suspect might be underlying this is that wow, with the interest rates higher and the deficit growing.
Interest growing, there’s where your real problem is. He didn’t say that though. So in the end, economy is strong. 50 basis points at the expense of the problem that everyone is feeling now from the last couple of years. Yes. And according to the CPI index, prices are, I think it’s over 23% higher than May of 2020. So he hasn’t fixed that yet. He said that’s mission number one. Yeah, here it is with the 50 basis point cuts which by the way, rates and the dollar of Bose gone, both gone right in his face ever since then.
So not sure how well that is working. But so I mean what, what is the what is the outlook from the brick supposed to be at this point in time to continue lending money to Treasury? What would be the benefit? I mean like and it seems like over the past years they like it. They’ve been. It’s like Japan and Canada have been buying a lot. You know, your major powers are selling. You’re like, like Canada’s pretty small. Like you should be relying on Canada to be supported by China have gone down. England, who also runs deficit has increased.
The Cayman Islands too, which like what? Yeah. Coming from there. And like you made a good point too about like let’s focus on jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. Well, whenever a large portion of those jobs were government jobs, then yes. Does it add to gdp? Sure. I would argue that just like when you’re doing spending is your return on that investment is very. It’s critical. Like what are you really getting from that if you’re just hiring someone and I’ll put this as a basis I live in Canada, it’s like 20 to 30% depending on what level of a participation and association are government jobs to some degree or another.
That’s a large part of your population that exists off of the taxes raised to pay the government to pay them. Like on a circular model that eventually doesn’t work that like if you’ve got you’re kind of tying it into the Doge or Doge kind of Elon Musk coming in which I love. I love that I’m quite intrigued by the DOGE board. I will. I love it. Well, we’ll get you go off on that. What you know, if they go into optimize to make government more efficient, like you said, that’s firing a lot of redundant jobs, a lot of redundancies within government.
And then do you see now we see the real employment numbers now? Well, I mean we get glimpses of the real employment numbers when they, when they Revised it lower 818 jobs a couple of months ago. And a side note on that, if that was over the past year, I’m assuming they didn’t find all that data out at once, that means they knew the first first month was wrong for a while and we just find out then. I also believe on the last labor report, if you subtract out the government jobs that the private payroll was actually negative.
Now this is one area though where hopefully Elon Musk’s experience seen a couple times posted where he came in cut 90% of the workforce of Twitter without seemingly much interruption. So I’m not a particularly large fan of government mandate to dictate the entrepreneurial and business cycle. Although at least if you’re going to do it, you’re someone that has a better handle on things than most of the. The politicians that we see come in there. So hopefully that will help. But I. It’s kind of hard to know without knowing what will go around it. But what, what are they thinking about the economic impact and what happens to those people? Is there a plan in place for that? We, you know, it’s still a little bit early, but that’s.
I think. Yeah, it’s still. Oh, I know. Well, that this is why it’s great to have someone like yourself and have the substack that you have as well, where it’s daily, but because it is this speed that things are moving and people need to be on it because this is one of those situations where it’s going to be more chaos. This transition is going to be very difficult and very strange. But that means there’s huge opportunity and maybe like let’s take another step back here to just refamiliarize. There was a great post from visual capitalists, the gold to silver ratio.
And it’s a nice little chart here. This is your. All of your followers will know this. It’s your kind of your basic. But we also attract a lot of new people. So if they see this ratio, they’ll go, oh, interesting. Where’s the opportunity here with silver under the umbrella of the debt levels and you know, you know, safety. Flight to safety. Let’s take a peek at this. We’ll get your comment on what you see here. So you see that we’ve got the, if we scroll down to. They’ve got the actual numbers here of where we’re at today compared to where that, you know, the major peaks and stuff.
And I think we’re at one of the highest right there ratios. What. Give, give us your take on this ratio and what, what that speaks to you. Oh, well, stabbing pain. Looking at that, that Spike up in 2020. Because when you got up, what was it? 125, 128. Those were the days when silver was. I think it got below $12 for maybe only a day or two. And that was. Right as Covid was becoming a thing. I remember going to PDAC that year and on. I flew on a Friday and gold and silver got hammered. I remember coming back the next Friday and same exact thing.
And it was, it was a little bleak for a while. You remember? Yes. So obviously you have the spike there, which looks like was the record Now, Andrew, it’s too bad. Can you scroll down a little bit so we can see the bottom of that? Yes, it’s too bad it doesn’t go farther back. I remember seeing a chart similar to this but just another 100 or 200 years behind it. And those years it was pretty steady and flat around that 15 to 16 or 17 to 1 ratio. And of course, right around the time the Fed comes along is when things start diverging from that a little bit.
Now ultimately, what can you do with that? Do I think there’s a case to be made, especially with the rate at which silver is being consumed. And if we do ever get that, let’s call it retail surge into physical silver. With silver, we have that reported deficit that now is about to hit its sixth year when the ETFs and EDPs and silver funds are included. So, and I know, as I know you dig into quite regularly, we don’t have a lot of money going into the silver mining space. Right, the mining companies. No, I mean, that’s one of the questions here too.
I might pepper you with questions because we’ve got lots of questions here too. So while we’re going and someone here says, what are your current thoughts on junk silver and also which country produces more silver, USA or Canada? Oh, I think it’s USA but I mean, it’s got to be. But tell me what your thoughts are. I believe the US because they’re in the top nine. Top nine in silver. Let’s see if I can remember this correctly, is Mexico, China, Peru, Chile and then Bolivia, then Russia, Australia, U. S and one more. So Canada is lower on the silver side.
And in terms of the other one was junk silver. Well, I think if you’re getting silver, especially now when the premiums are down junk silver, I mean, you, you still have your silver. If we ever do end up in an environment where you want to barter or be able to use it more effectively, obviously it has that advantage. If junk silver, I mean, we had that period. I guess that wasn’t last year, that was probably two years ago now where the premiums on junk silver spiked. I mean, if you could get a generic round for $2 over spot and junk silver is $10 over spot, it go to the lower price, but haven’t checked junk silver rates recently, although I don’t think they are higher right now.
And certainly that’s a good kind of silver to get, especially if it’s competitive rate. Well, here this just leads me into a topic we kind of. I skipped over in that. In my fault. Let’s talk about this premium China’s willing to pay. Talk about paying for silver. That’s a big deal. Like that’s. And that does focus in on producers, you know, certain countries as well, like China. You know, we talked about it last month when you’re on, you know, willing to pay a premium. What’s. What’s going on with that? Yeah, that’s an interesting one because we’ve seen that premium there.
Geez, that began even last summer. It’s come in a little bit, but there have been periods where it’s been $3 higher in Shanghai for months at a time. I think it’s between the two dollar and three dollar range right now. Yeah. Actually, I got a good story for you and. All right. As well. At home. Went down to the Rick Rule Symposium, what used to be the Sprott show. They’re down here in Boca, so it’s nice. Was close by and we went to. I’ll, I’ll leave the company. I don’t know if I have permission to share their name on this one.
But a large silver producer, primary silver producer, that was at the show and I was mentioning what. What do you think is going to happen or what, what point does someone start arbing this spread? Is it feasible yet with shipping rates? And he said that basically what’s been happening is that smelters in China, I think he said, Normally they pay $200 a ton for the treatment charges for the silver concentrate. And as this premium existed, they were saying, all right, we’ll only charge you 150. We’ll only charge you 100. I believe he said at one point that they were actually got to a negative, negative fee, basically the smelters, because they were going and getting the silver and able to sell it in China at the higher rate.
So that you do see that happening. That’s wild. Now, in the meantime, you have some slightly different conditions where in retail in the U.S. there’s been a lot of selling. And we’ve even seen reports from bullion dealers that. And wholesalers that some of the coins and bars being sold back have been getting melted down into industrial bars. So two data points that speak to the strength of what’s happening there now with China. I still have not seen any evidence suggesting that there is large retail silver buying. Okay, interesting. Yep. And I hear people talk about silver.
I know there was that story earlier this year where the government said buy silver instead of gold. That may have happened. Although at least now whether we. I mean, we don’t get crystal clear to the data on such things, especially out of China, but at least Silver Institute and there was another data source and also there’s a guy named Eric Young who does a couple interviews, also active on Twitter, who is Chinese and has relationships there. And he said that still to this point, you have not seen China go into silver from an investment standpoint. Although obviously, as I think many of your listeners know, China does have a long history and the silver standard.
So there is that in the background. And also, once again, we’ll touch back to Elon, which ties into solar panels, which ties into silver again as well, the industrial use of silver. And who makes solar panels but China? They pump out panels like crazy. Yeah. And did you, did you see that? Might have been last year. But Elon Musk has said that he can power the entire US by a hundred mile. By 100 mile. Yes, solar grid. Now, I understand he has some businesses that are involved in solar. So hey, maybe somebody wants to say he’s talking his book.
Whether he is or not, he’s now in a position where a. Not only does it is now has the ability to do something about that yet. Andrew, have you felt this same thing where it’s like we heard about him on the periphery yet in the last month, it’s gone from almost zero to now. He seems to have a great level of influence in what’s going on. He’s, he’s a very smart guy, let’s just put it that way. He’s played very, very well. And that’s why I laugh when I read some of these mainstream articles saying, you know, this is going to put a hamper on the transition.
It’s going to be so negative. It’s like, no, what are you, are you kidding? They’re going to do all of these things still. They’re not going to force it down people’s throats. But Elon, like I, I look at Elon and Tesla as the cars are kind of a throwaway to an overarching whether it’s robotics, AI, it’s, you know, panels for your home, for batteries for your home. That’s his vision. Like he. And people will accept it, I think a bit more if that is told by him rather than being forced upon in another narrative. And I have no problem with that.
I mean, I saw his claim about the solar panels and whatnot. And we’re working on an article on that and just trying to figure out some of the numbers as to how much silver that would be like, it’s A staggering amount. Of course, we’re not producing any level of that, but it just shows that. Okay, if you want to do that, that would be amazing to hear from any silver miner. They’d be like, great, all right, fund us. Let’s go take some holes. If you want all that silver, boom, let’s go. I mean, I’d be all for it.
It’d be great. Yeah. And that’s another area that I’m fascinated to see how it plays out, because Trump, if you Google his comments on the climate change does not sound like he’s a believer. And in fact, just yesterday, he nominated a guy named Chris Wright for the Department of Energy, who is quoted as saying, there is no climate crisis. So, you know, we’ll see where that leaves the US in. In terms of the 2030 and 2050 agendas. Could Trump change policies such as. I heard him reference his displeasement with the Inflation Reduction act, which extended and increased the solar subsidies the government was giving out.
We could see a pullback there. Again, if Elon wants to power the country with solar, you know, that would be an offsetting factor. So certainly that’s. That’s one area to be keeping an eye on, the one way I like to look at it, because I have no problem with the idea of a transition, if it’s actually a transition. I. I’m. I’m pro all energy, and I think that’s part of the narrative that they’re saying. And it’s funny because it just reminds me of if it was JP Morgan versus Goldman Sachs came out, and apparently it’s not 2030 anymore, it’s not 2050, it’s 2070 now.
So all of a sudden, there’s no end of the world. We’ve got a little bit more time till 2017. They might be having a hard time finding the medals for it. Yeah, I know. They’re starting to do the math. They’re like, oh, okay, wait, we’re gonna have to rejig our models here a little bit and figure this out. Actually, Andrew, can I introduce something that I think people would be interested to hear, and I’d love to get your opinion on it. Did you happen to catch that interview that Chris Ritchie of Silver Crest who did that deal with Core, but he did an interview with Craig Hempke on Sprott Money News a couple months ago.
I did. I did see it, yes. And he mentioned that for their lost cheese piss project, which, and I’ll defer to you on this, is one of the lower cost Silver projects out there right now, correct? Yep. And he says that you know the all in sustaining cost doesn’t capture the true cost of if you’re starting from scratch to you spent this much and you made this many ounces. And so he says we wanted to do a true accounting of it, find out what the actual cost is and the number they came back with. This is for one of the lowest cost producers was $25 plus pre tax.
So if that’s what Silvercrest is doing and when you look at the amounts of silver, I mean if we really have a 200 million ounce deficit, you know some companies, they’re bringing a million ounces online, maybe two, maybe four, maybe five. And you’re getting into the big names like. So if that’s where Silver Crest is, Andrew, let’s say someone comes to you, a group of investors and says hey, we see a silver deficit, we want to get a new project launched. Am I correct that it’s hard to imagine they’re going to do that substantially less expensively than Silvercrest just did? Yeah, that was what’s so interesting about them being able to in a better, in a lower cost jurisdiction to think if you were to start a new discovery, say you had a new discovery somewhere, the cost because of inflation of going all right let’s build this mine out.
Even if we got all the permits and they said go give you the green light, depending where that is, that’s going to cost. It’s going to. The bill is going to be huge, it’s going to be enormous. Which is why they tried to be careful on this one and say not save or headed to a shortage. Well, we had conditions similar to this. From 1990 to 2005 inventories were coming down and then that changed in 2005. Price also did go up, which probably had something to do with it. But we’re certainly currently on track headed towards that outcome.
With out any. There’s no oasis within sight that I can see. So in terms of demand, what I was trying to. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. There was a report that Silver Institute commissioned from Oxford Economics where they did a forecast on projected industrial growth, industrial demand growth, silver over the next 10 years they came back with 46% increase relative to today’s levels. So if you want to tell me the world changes, who knows what the heck’s going to happen in 10 years. Sure. Just saying one independent study, that’s what they came back with. And again we talked before about how there’s not money coming in even if the money did come in at this.
If the deficit numbers are accurate, you know, there’s some point you could hit where. And we don’t know exactly how much silver is out there. There’s over a billion ounces in the public inventories and I see estimates 2 to 3 billion ounces. When you look at what’s been purchased in investment over the past decade, that is sitting in the hands of stackers. Okay. But I mean, if you keep going with the current trend, you might not get to the point where. Well, we know at the current trend we won’t get to the point where the new supply comes online because right now it’s not being invested in.
No. And perhaps the last shoe that could fall in place, obviously, if you have retail, where there’s been a lot of selling, if that changes. But also there was a report that came out mentioning that Russia was going to begin including silver in investment to its state fund, which is the first time in this cycle where I’ve heard of any central bank or government level institution mentioning silver. Now, they did not say how much they’re going to buy. Although interesting when you think of the position they’re in right now with a conflict, which could change with Trump in there.
And supposedly they have just talked yet in this conflict. One of the other things that came out of the BRICS meeting was that they want to set up a precious metals exchange to enhance price discovery. These are large. Russia is a large silver producer. Now, to be clear, I’m not saying that this is happening or that I’ve heard this is happen, going to happen, but at least, man, if you’re, if it gets to a military battle and you have a valuable resource that could be an area of vulnerability. And continue to read articles how it’s like, hey, if we want to go, go to war with China, we have to ask them nicely to continue sending parts so that we can build the weapons.
Yeah. Now in that phase where we’ll see how this stacks up. But if Russia starts doing it, I, I keep going back to how five years ago if you’d said our gold’s going to become a bigger part of the system, outside of people like you and me and the gold and silver crowd, nobody was thinking that. Yeah, no. Much different story today. So can that same type of process happen with silver? I think that’s what drove silver higher earlier this year more than anything with the deficit or the supply and demand is that there’s some point where gold goes up, silver follows along.
So whether another country is buying it as money or just things, hey, gee, if silver keeps going up here and they’re looking at the reasons and it makes them think that it will at some point, whether it’s as an investment, as money, as whatever you want to call it, has not happened yet. But certainly one thing that could potentially change in a similar way to how gold has changed. That’s what I like about the silver too, because it has all those baked in. It’s like a hedge against a lot of these different narratives. Whether it’s the bitcoin narrative, certainly debt, industrial use with solar panels.
You’ve got the energy transition story. And there’s not a lot of pure silver companies and there’s, there’s a bit more ones, companies that are out there now specifically targeting silver. It tends to be more of like a byproduct from, for some of these companies, like it’s, you know, they’re drilling for something else and they go, oh, wow, we got lots of silver. But it’s certainly becoming a lot more known. And although the West, I would argue with gold and silver are still kind of in the dark ages to some degree. But although. Yeah, go ahead, please.
Yeah, just one comment there. We have a fellow named Vince Lanci who does our morning show. Brilliant guy. And he get. He’s on these list. Anytime Goldman or any of these banks issues a report, he’s there and detailing it. And it’s interesting. Bank of America writing regularly about the deficit. I think RBC had one out recently that. And of course there was that TD securities report where they talked. The title was the Next Silver Squeeze. And they were talking about the declining inventories. And so I mean, the message is getting out there to the institutional funds.
It’s not just counting on people on YouTube or. No, I mean the banks are saying the same thing. So if the clients are reading it, the. They’re seeing the same thing. And perhaps that has something to do with over 100 million ounces of silver being added to the ETFs since March. Yes, that’s interesting as well. Yes. Wait, I’ve got a quick question too. Not to just go, but do you believe in Mike Oliver’s current thesis on the price of silver? This is from Daryl. I think his thesis makes perfect sense. I know he had talked about $50 silver by the election due to some of the things that were happening.
I’ll point out the other two times that we’ve been in this territory in the silver price, it has gone to 50. So the fact that you’re above 30 now, I guess on some level, more likely than if you’re at $20. So could that happen quickly? It certainly could. We’ve seen throughout the rally big bank short position growing in both gold and silver and some short covering at times over the past few weeks. So could some that that’s the situation that it’s always been with silver, something like that. With the market dynamics. If you have Fed comes out, we got stuck quantitative tightening X, Y or Z happened over the weekend.
This bank got in trouble. We’re doing QE or if you have one of these situations like we’ve been talking about with Russia, you have that large short position where people could get caught off sides and you could have a move like that quickly. With that said, can I say like Mike did, that it’s gonna happen by the election or in the next two months. I, it could, I wouldn’t be able to unfortunately guarantee that. But a great question by my dear friend Daryl there and certainly the driving reasons behind why Michael is saying that make a lot of sense and I think he will be right at some point, unfortunately.
I thought that was what you were supposed to do today, Andrew. Know the exact dates and timeline like I, I have. My crystal ball is murky. It’s. I’ve been trying to reach out to my oracle, Adelphi, but it’s not, it’s not working well, we’ll see how close we can get. But that’s, and that’s a great thing too with, I mean if you look back at the trajectory, say just the last five years and if you just said I have a thesis which like you have, that all of these narratives, they existed five years ago, they still exist today, I would argue like on steroids today there’s more of a case for them.
And if you are able to just pick away, just picking up here and there, just building a position, you don’t have to go all in into stuff, just build a position, be patient, you’re very, very well rewarded in the last. And that’s a pretty short term five years really. I think you, you kind of talked about Silver outperforming the NASDAQ for however long. I mean 20 plus years. I redid those numbers still, Silver is still ahead of the NASDAQ since the turn of the century. Now obviously you still had a bit of a bubble in the nasdaq so you could pick other dates where numbers would be different.
But I think just as a general barometer, I think very few people, unless they’ve, you know, been watching your show or something Silver related Already even within that community probably are not aware of that. So. And, and also if I could just add one comment to the other point you made there. Nobody knows the next month’s price of any asset with 100% certainty. Yet when you look around at the conditions that are out there, the reported deficit, the BRICs, monetary, the Fed, all of this stuff, the idea of having 10 or 20% of your portfolio in precious metals.
I think even if, even if you were just throwing darts at the board but wanted to capture the diversity effect. Yeah. So that you’re in good shape. I’m not trying to tell anybody what they should or shouldn’t buy, but to me, if someone asked, I mean, it’s hard to think of some particular scenario that given where we’re at today, where 10 or 20% in gold and or silver would be doing damage to your overall security. And yes, if any of these things continue going the way they’re doing, there is the possibility, we don’t know what the government will do, but at some point, either they’re printing to oblivion which would send gold and silver higher, or if they ever did do a revaluation, then having some exposure to those assets, obviously, plus it’s already done its thing, costs aren’t going to be going down anytime soon.
So maybe the last thing to touch on, we mentioned Trump and how it was similar to back in 2016, he gets elected, gold and silver get clobbered. Yes. Yeah. Dollar index had been below 95 in September of 2016. By January it was over 103. Two years later it was under 90. So yeah, you have a lot of different scenarios, all of which end with a similar category and, or similar outcome. And 20 years from now, 40 years from now, I don’t know that there’s a good argument that here’s how the cost of digging these metals out of the ground is going to be lower, let alone the demand in a system that it feels like people are recognizing at varying speeds and levels and degree.
But that okay, what we have is broken, we’re reaching the new point, a point where something new is needed. And I do think that even within US Governmental levels they are starting to come to that realization. Especially because what I mentioned earlier where if you want to have a battle with China and you need to ask them for parts, I know. Into a military weakness that I find that so strange too is that you’re, you’re going to have to somehow convince them to send you the rare earth that you need for the missile guided systems and you name it that will you help process the stuff we need to to send bombs at you like just come on like doesn’t very strange.
And you know it’s, it’s, you know it’s such a weird time and I liken back to. I was, I was lucky to do an interview with Victor Hagani who was at Long Term Capital Management. You remember that one from the 90s. Oh yeah. So wild interview. Very smart guy. Talk about someone who understands risk and had to learn, you know, in a very difficult way. Excellent conversation but it was great because I just like into. He kept on while they tried to unwind those positions that were pretty huge off of the options pricing model. If those of you watch the video you can learn a bit.
There’s lots of books written about it but they’ve had. Was it Black and Scholls were part Black and Scholes four PhD Noble winners. I think on their, their hedge fund like total the gods of the market. You can’t lose. And then, then they lost. I’m big enough and you can lose. And you know here we’re not. I don’t know if we’re really talking about the Black swan outcomes anymore. We’re talking about the, the elephant. Well, it’s the unwinding like the underwind unwinding of that position took years. Then you go okay, well what would it look like to unwind what the US has built this, this issue that they have to solve.
Like it’s it like I don’t even attempt to because it’ll keep me up at night. How complex it would be to go oh well let’s rewind and do a new currency or let’s do some sort of Fed Coin. Let’s try to do this the A level of brain power and people that would have to work on this or whatever the solution is going to be other than just print more and hope for the best. And just like it’s, it’s enormous. And I think that’s what makes Any time I wander off and I think about AI and I think about, I don’t know, whatever else that’s out there you go commodities.
You have to be, you have to be in here. I mean that’s, this is the hedge, the safety, the peace of mind. If you’re in precious metals, if you’re in like even if you just went and just put it all in copper or whatever. I mean not that I’m saying to do that you’d almost be better off at this point to sit in safety somewhere with while they Sort out what this is going to look like. Yeah, I think that’s well said. And obviously different people have experience in different industries, so there’s different things that you can be getting involved in.
Yet you brought up the point of our people inside the government thinking about this. Well, there was Robert Zelick of the World bank back in 2010 who talked about it. We also have Judy Shelton who’s going around with her book on gold, listened to a great interview with her that David Morgan did, just heard that this morning. And someone who not officially on the Trump team was an economic advisor in the last administration. So I mean you’re, you would think someone would be looking at it. I get the feeling that, I mean again, they’re not going to tell you this until something is done.
Actually in some cases they do if you see some of the statements that come out. But you would think you would hope someone in decision making power is looking at this. And I think especially now that they want to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. they want to have a strong military. And I think I do. I can’t prove it, but I do feel internally that there is an awareness that we, we keep kicking the can down the road. Now we’re really, we’ve kind of reached the road. End of the road. Yeah. My hope is definitely that, you know, Elon and crew and whatever else, whatever way you think of them, that there is more efficiency and that whatever funding comes from government sources that return on investment is thought of more of as a business that where you’re placing your capital matters.
I have my preferences like I rather see a lot more nuclear than say wind farms, but there’s lots of tools in the tool belt. I won’t even get into that. So we’ll talk for another hour. But if we get a bit more return on that government outlay and also a lot more return to opportunities for small middle sized businesses and people that go, oh yeah, we’re going to build out XYZ because you’d have to build out something like eight new nuclear reactors a year. If you want to keep pace with China, you go, well, okay, how many engineers does that take? Specialty work crews, construction crews that don’t exist anymore.
What was the last time they built out a nuclear plant? It was like decades ago. So that takes a lot of training, a lot of skill development. But that means great. Those are actual jobs that are high paying and would excite an economy to go. Yeah, we could actually build this up because we have to actually build out the infrastructure to do all these things. So there’s lots of optimism I think in the chaos and all the what’s happening, what’s going on. And that’s why it’s so important to have someone like yourself to talk to. People have the substack as well so they can keep informed because there’s like just 30 million narratives hitting people today all the time and it’s good to be able to have a quick three to four minute read to remind them oh yes, this, this and, and where they should be spending their own effort to like critically think and to search out information.
Well, I really appreciate that and that was a big part of the design behind this where obviously you can get into trading levels, technical patterns, all sorts of stuff which as its relevant place although just for people who are trying to understand, have a good idea of the full picture of what’s going on as they make decisions and also being able to do it in a way that’s easy to read. And it’s like I love some of the columns, I get where they’re longer yet I think everyone knows when they wake up, see their in mailbox jammed full of stuff.
So we try to make it really easy to get through so that you don’t need to take a lot of time and you can in a short period of time be pretty well versed on what is going on. And either case, I appreciate you sharing that with people today and appreciate you having me on here. It’s fun to catch up with you as always. Of course, it really is. Adam, do you have. There’s another thing I sent to you, the last one I sent you that was something you shared. Let’s see if we can pull it up because it would make a great send off as well as a comment by Yara who says can do spirit that you know, there’s lots of stress out there, there’s lots of, you know, change and chaos.
And once again I find in my day I, I could think about all the stressful, terrible things and my day is going to go terrible. But if it’s that can do and you go no, no, no, hold on. There’s opportunity and there’s solutions and if we focus on that and what am I doing today towards those solutions, Making my own life a little bit better, friendships a bit better, family a bit better. If you’re taking those little steps, that’s the can do spirit that especially America or us is known for. And I think the more that that kind of patriotic that that that sense of self starts rising again.
I mean that that would be a stimulus right there. A package that would just get a lot of the world going again too. And that could definitely happen for sure. Yeah, I think that’s well said. And you know, you hear the stories about whenever there’s a economic calamity, there’s always that one guy who was buying when the blood was in the streets. And things are going to change, probably change a lot. And I think it’s sad that a lot of people are going to get blindsided, probably similar to 2008, you know. And that’s why I think it’s important that people are aware of some of these things that are going on.
And at least once you are, then you begin making your plan and life is going to change. We adjust as best as we can. And usually I find if you do that, you end up having things work out. All right. So now if you’ll hold on for one more second, Adam, I’m just sending you an email right now because I do want to bring this up. It’s so awesome. As soon as you sent this to me and I wasn’t sure if we could get it on. Ellen calling you with the, with the latest update of what she’s planning next.
Yeah, I told her. Yeah, yeah. And I wanted to get the Nvidia earnings before everyone else did as well. So subscribe and I’ll let you know. But hold on. I just sent this to you. We have to show this because it was so great. I was like, as soon as you sent it, I was like, we have to pull this up. So if you just hang in there with us for one minute, Adam’s gonna pull it up here right now. So this is, this is so awesome. Alrighty. And just, just bear with us. It’s just. Andrew, while we’re waiting, do you have a year end silver or gold forecast for us? Oh, God.
Okay, hold on. Oh, thank God. You saved me with the. The price. There we go. Well, I mean, everybody’s always dreamed of having Ben Bernanke in silver minted helicopter statues form. So I love it. Thought of this. I was at the Freedom Fest in the Bahamas back in 2011 and they had a vendor booth where they were carving silver into all sorts of blocks and different shapes. Thought of it back then. We actually got some guy who figured out how to make it for us. The propellers spin and here is the silver chopper, Ben Bernard. This is perfect.
It’s a. It’s like perfect for the holiday season. Yeah. If you order them now, you can get there in time for Christmas and yeah, it was something we, we spent the last two years finding a new way to get it designed to bring the cost down. He was an expensive bugger to make. Oh, I’m sure he’s still perhaps not cheap, but at least we’re able to finally make him available. And if somebody wants an entertaining Christmas present or holiday present anyway, Ben Bernanke is now minted in silver throwing hundred dollar bills out of a helicopter, which is obviously something everybody needs in their life.
Right. Everyone should have this and it’s a great talking point for the holiday season that you should bring up with your relatives. Beautiful. So thank Chris. We really appreciate your time and your wisdom and sharing all this knowledge. It’s important, especially nowadays. We love chatting with you and we’ll talk to you again real soon. Well, I sure appreciate that, Andrew. It was a lot of fun and thanks again for having me. Have a good one. We’ll talk to you soon. Take care and thank you, everyone. Thanks for all the questions. I think. Oh, I, someone did want to try to nail you down for a silver price, but I know you’re not going to give one, but I’ll randomly say end of the year 3271.
I was gonna go with a 31 to 35 ring. Bold in specific there. I know. But yeah, I, I think, I think it’s going to take a little while for the Trump. Yeah. Change to settle. I wonder if this idea. Well, tariffs and cutting spending. Good for $ rallying. Yeah. Realization of some of the derivative effects of that as they start to sink in. Or do we end up seeing something similar to what happened last time where $103 two years later under 90. We’ll see how that goes this time around. But we’ll have to do this again soon.
We will. Before PDAC and Vivre because I think that first quarter, it’s going to be very telling. There’s gonna be lots to talk about right around the corner, my friend. Brilliant. All right. All the best. Thank you, everyone. Take care. Enjoy the rest of the day. Well, thank you to Andrew for having me on his show and thank you at home for watching. Hopefully that was helpful and gave you at least an idea of a review of some of the things that have happened this year as well as some things to expect heading into 2025, which is amazingly just around the corner.
And before we wrap up, I would like to thank First Majestic Silver who has launched their first mint bullion store, which you can now find@firstmint.com as they are progressing in their efforts to sell more of the silver direct, put less through the COMEX system and perhaps reduce the leverage embedded within that system. And here you can see they have a wide range of bars and rounds and we’ll take a look at those in just a second. Here are some of the rounds. They also do have a 2024 President Trump bar and here is a beautiful 1 kilo silver cask bar and also some 100 ounce stacker bars that you have there and even the buffalo round.
So quite a bit of progress they’ve made there. I know that is one of their goals to continue to put as much silver through there as possible. You can find them@firstmint.com and with that said going to wrap up for today but again I do wish you a Happy Thanksgiving. We will be back here on Monday so go enjoy some time away from gold and silver. There will be some trading on Friday but happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for being here and I will see you on Monday.
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