Um, COVID vaccines were so grotesque and so overwhelming that it’s almost hard to watch them just two years later. But we should, because the people who told them are still effectively in charge. Here’s one. It’s from 2021. This is CDC director Rochelle Wolenski telling us, informing us that anyone who takes the vax and then somehow manages to get infected. But that would never happen. But if it did happen, that person would not be able to spread the virus to anyone else.

We promise. Watch. If you were to get infection and vaccinated, could you give it to somebody else? Were you silently able to spread it? Those data were not covered in the clinical trials. But now data have emerged again that have demonstrate that even if you were to get infected during post vaccination, that you can’t give it to anyone else. Why hasn’t she been charged with a crime? Well, she never will be.

And of course, just a few years later, it turns out the whole thing was a disaster of world historic proportions. Books will be written about this at some point when we can tell the truth about it. A lot of people were killed or permanently disabled by it. How many, is the question. How many people were hurt by the vax? How many people were killed by the vax? It was mandatory.

We just spoke to Bret Weinstein on this show. Professor Bret Weinstein. He told us he’s seen research that up to 17 million people across the globe may have died from it. Watch. I was recently at a conference in Romania on the COVID crisis, and so there was a lot of work trying to unpack what we actually understand. And I saw a credible estimate of something like 17 million deaths globally from this technology.

17 million deaths from the COVID vaccine. Well, when you scale up to billions, it’s not hard to reach a number like that with a technology this dangerous. Now, to your deeper question, I think let’s steal, man. Just for perspective, I mean, that’s like the death toll of a global war. Yes, absolutely. This is a great tragedy of history. So that proportion, 17 million globally. Now, that’s an estimate.

And the interesting and most shocking fact, actually, is that we don’t really know, because no one seems to be keeping track, at least in this country, which is amazing, considering what our government keeps track of. The Biden administration knows exactly how many transgender heart surgeons there are, how many bisexual samoan airline pilots, they keep track of it with Nazi like precision. But how many people were killed or disabled by the COVID vaccine? They don’t care.

So they’re not keeping track of those numbers. So it falls to people who don’t work for the US government. One of them is a man called Steve Kirsch, who is a MIT trained inventor, by the way, a longtime donor to the Democratic Party. Not a lifelong right wing extremist or anything, a businessman. But he has now dedicated his time and his ample energy to figuring out exactly what the COVID vaccine did to this country and the world.

He’s the founder of the COVID-19 early treatment fund. Steve Hurst joins us now. Steve, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you, Tucker. It’s great to be here. So, before you tell us what you found, and you’ve been working on this, it seems to me, day and night for a couple of years. Tell us your background. Because you don’t have a background in public health, it’s sort of a weird life trajectory that you’ve had, which I think makes the story more compelling.

How did you get to where you are now to doing this? Well, as a young kid, I had a summer school probability course when I was in high school, and that was just really game changing for me. I was fascinated by math and just really excelled in math. And I went to MIT, got a couple of degrees from MIT, left MIT, started about seven different high tech companies.

A couple of them had billion dollar market caps. And then what happened is COVID essentially closed my business and that we couldn’t go into work. And so I was looking to do whatever I could to make a difference so that I could go back to work and everybody else could as well. And so I started looking at early treatments and started the COVID-19 early treatment fund, raised about $5 million.

And we funded research on drugs like fluvoxamine, which was featured on 60 Minutes. And then there was, of course, this work on the vaccine in the background. And we were all very hopeful that the vaccine would be successful. Yes, it came out, and the FDA said that they have tested it and it’s totally safe and everybody should get it. It uses this new novel technology. And of course, I’m a technologist, so I’m always looking for something that’s new, better technology.

And so they said, super safe. Everybody should get it. And I said, look, even though that I knew about early treatments and I knew that fluvoxamine was effective in reducing long haul COVID, and if you got it early, people didn’t seem to suffer from COVID even though I had that, I said, why don’t I get an extra protection? So I myself was vaccinated in March of 2021. And I got two shots of Moderna.

And then about a month later, I started hearing horror stories from my friends. I heard from one person who had three relatives who were perfectly healthy, and all three of them died a week after they got the vaccine. And I said to her, well, I said, that’s impossible. That’s statistically so unlikely that it could never happen if it was caused by the vaccine. And she said, yeah, but they’re dead.

And then a week later, our carpet cleaner comes at our door, and he’s wearing a mask. And I give him a hard time. I say, hey, don’t you know if you take the vaccine, you don’t have to wear a mask? And he said, well, I wasn’t able to take both shots. And I said, why not? He said, well, after the first shot, two minutes after the first shot, he had a heart attack, and he spent the night in the hospital.

And he has never been the same since that time. And so that was the wake up call for me when I saw it happening in my own personal circle, because I was believing the whole narrative. I was selling the whole narrative until this guy shows up at my door to clean my carpet, saying he had a heart attack two minutes after he got the shot, and he’s never been the same, and his wife had symptoms, too.

So that’s what led me to start to look and see. Somebody’s lying to me, and I don’t think it’s my friends. And so I started to look at the various data. I looked at all sorts of data. I looked at every piece of data I could lay my hands on, and it was all the same. It was all showing that these shots are causing a level of adverse events as well as death, morbidity, and mortality beyond anything that’s ever been seen before.

Can I ask you to pause right there? You’re describing pure intellectual inquiry motivated by curiosity and concern, which is great, but you’re also doing this in a context, and the context is the spring of 2021, where you are not allowed to question the vaccine. If you want to remain friends with people, if you want to be considered a serious person, if you don’t want to be trashed on Wikipedia, as you have been.

And so you spend your whole life gathering accolades, going to impressive schools, making a ton of money, being celebrated in the press, and you must know on some level, because you’re smart, that if you start talking about this stuff, all of that is over. And you’re going to be a thought criminal, and people are going to look at you sideways, did you know that? No, I had no idea.

I thought that if I told the truth and I let people know about the facts and the data that I had uncovered that people would basically say, oh, you’re right, this looks like a big problem. We need to stop the shots. And I told my wife before I did this, I said, hey, this will be over in like two weeks. The data is so clear that this is going to be done in two weeks.

And we’re still at it after all this time. So tell us what you found and what you have found and what your conclusions are. Well, what I found was all the data was consistent with this vaccine being the most dangerous vaccine of all. Mean there are more reports on this vaccine in the various system. Which is the vaccine adverse event reporting system. It’s the official system for reporting adverse events for a vaccine.

It’s set up by the US government. It’s run by the US government. And there were more reports for the COVID vaccine than for all vaccines in history combined. And not only that, but we found out later that this Ferris system, which they set up to monitor for safety had triggered 770 different safety signals. Now normally a vaccine only will trigger zero safety signals. It’d be really unusual for a vaccine to trigger any safety signals in fairs.

Especially because the way they define these safety signals makes it almost impossible for a vaccine to trigger a safety signal. But this vaccine triggered 770 safety signals. So what did the CDC do about it? They basically told no one. The only reason that we even found out about it is because someone issued a Freedom of Information act request to the CDC requesting. Could you show me the output of the analysis of the safety signal analysis you’re supposed to do? And so they got back a spreadsheet showing 770 safety signals were triggered.

That is mind blowing. That is not a three alarm fire. That is a 770 alarm fire. These are things like myocarditis. These are things like pulmonary embolism. These are basically 770 unique symptom types that are triggered in the bear system. Saying we have a problem here. You need to investigate. This should have been a complete stopping condition for the CDC. The CDC should be warning people, hey, we got 770 safety signals.

Never seen anything like that before in history. Maybe we might have made a mistake on this vaccine. But they said nothing. They didn’t even let people know that there had been any safety signals that were triggered. And so there’s no question that the CDC is a very corrupt organization and that these people who are in charge here are burying all the safety signals they will not engage with you.

They talk about saying, hey, we want to stop misinformation but the way you stop misinformation. By the way, I agree with them. Misinformation is a problem and misinformation kills. The only thing that we disagree on is who is telling that information. Now I think it’s them and they think it’s me. But unless the two of us get together in a dialogue we’re not going to be able to figure that out.

And they seem to not want to engage in dialogue with anybody that they call a misinformation spreader. So we never have resolution of this. And in fact it’s so easy for them to stop the misinformation instantly. All they have to do is invite us to a room. I don’t care whether it’s at the CDC or HHS in a room where we go and we say, hey, let’s query the VSD database, which is the vaccine safety data link database.

Let’s query the Medicare database and let’s query the Medicaid database. Let’s query those databases and see what results we get. Let’s give us free access to query the data. We don’t have to do the querying ourselves. You can do the querying. You just tell us the results. We’re not looking for any personally identifiable information, just statistics. Let’s go give us free access to the data so we can surface the truth and if we’re wrong we’ll back off.

Nothing. Can’t get that. Can’t get a dialogue with them. They won’t give us access to the data. But the data that we do have access to that we’ve been able to get, it all shows that these vaccines are killing people and they’re killing the very people that they were meant to protect. It’s actually increasing your risk of death. On what grounds could they refuse to allow an american citizen access to data that he pays for in the country that he owns? Apparently they’re not required by law to respond.

They’re required to respond to the Freedom of Information act requests. Now those Freedom of Information act requests provide a very narrow level of data transparency. We can only get reports that they have produced under the FOIA laws. You’re not allowed to request stuff that they don’t already have so they can run a simple record count and say how many people died or what have you. But you can’t get them to create novel records under the Freedom of Information act request.

So you can’t get them to run a query for you, especially one that involves, say, querying two different databases, because that would require work, and work is not covered under FOIA, so they have the option to opt out. And whenever you try to request anything like that, they always opt out or they don’t respond. I mean, like, Aaron Siri has been trying to get lots of data from them for a very long time and has spent several years in litigation successfully and finally gets data.

But this should not be like pulling teeth. This should be like, guys, they should be welcoming us. They should be saying, come on in. We want the truth to be exposed. This shouldn’t be an adversarial kind of relationship. This should be a very cooperative relationship. We’re just scientists. We’re just trying to find out what the data. You know, people like Brian Hooker, they were granted access to these databases, to the VSD databases.

And when Brian Hooker started finding a connection between autism and vaccines, his access to the VSD database was revoked instantly. And so this is the way it works. Once you’re onto something, they revoke access. Now, when there’s no data transparency, you have to be very suspicious of your. You know, I have an open invitation to the heads of the CDC and the want. You said that misinformation is a problem.

You want to stop it. All you have to do is invite us in, let us do the queries on your database, and we’ll see what the data says, and we’ll make all of that information public. It’s all about transparency of public health information. It shouldn’t be kept private. Of course. Let us see the numbers that we paid for and own as american citizens. You disgusting, dishonest bureaucrats. I agree, but you don’t have the chance to do that.

So what data sets are you looking at and what do they tell you? Well, so I have some data that we were able to get from the Medicare database, and it shows very conclusively that if you give the pneumococcal vaccine, for example, in March of 2021, it’s a flat line. In fact, it slopes downward. If you give the COVID vaccine to the same group of people, effectively, it slopes upwards.

What is it that’s sloping upwards? The deaths, the death rate, how you kill people. Okay, yeah. Did it impact your mortality? And so with the COVID vaccine, your mortality increases every day since you got the shot for a while. And so we’ve seen that in the US data, in the US Medicare data, that’s gold standard data. That’s hard to dispute. And you can’t say it was oh, it’s just the timing, because we can compare vaccine A with vaccine B, and vaccine a goes like this, and vaccine B, the safer vaccine, is a flat line, in fact.

It slopes downwards, the other one slopes upwards. And so it’s obvious to anybody looking at that data that the vaccine is increasing mortality. And then we got this. I was contacted. I got the data dump from New Zealand. There was a guy, Barry Young, who was a database administrator for the New Zealand Ministry of Health, essentially Health New Zealand, and he was very concerned about what he was seeing in the database because people were getting the shots and died.

And so he released the complete database of the database that he controlled and he released it. And I got a copy of the original database. I then obfuscated it to make sure that there was no personally identifiable information that was disclosed. And I released the record level data, the patient record level data that has never been disclosed for any vaccine in history by any government in the entire world.

So this is an unprecedented event. Never before in world history has anyone ever released this patient level, record level data showing when a person was vaccinated and showing when they died on a per person basis. We don’t need to disclose any names, we don’t even need to disclose ages. We just talk about age ranges. And you do this analysis on this data. It’s called the Time series cohort analysis.

It’s the same analysis that the UK does, the UK Office of National Statistics does. When they try to analyze the vaccine in their country and show the vaccine is safe. They do what’s called a time series cohort analysis. Now, I did exactly the same analysis technique on that data. And what it shows is very clear. It shows that whatever is happening in the background, if the background is going upwards, because you got it, like dose three is given at a time when deaths are low and they’re going hot.

And so you naturally expect to slope up. And we saw a slope up, but the slope up went up like this instead of this. And for dose number four, where the deaths are now falling, because it’s six months later and it’s the completely opposite, seasonality, deaths are now falling. But if you look at the time series cohort analysis, deaths are rising. So in all cases, the deaths are exceeding what you would expect from background.

There’s no doubt about it. I’ve talked to epidemiologists, it’s like, look, it’s very clear. It’s crystal clear. We have record level data. It’s the best data possible. And it shows, without any doubt whatsoever, that the vaccines are killing the very people that they were meant to protect. So it’s confirmation of what we saw in the Medicare data. Now I can’t have a discussion with any epidemiologist in the world other than people who agree with me, like Harvey Rich.

He’s one of the top epidemiologists in the world. And he will say, yeah, there’s no way you can explain that. And no epidemiologist in the world will come and chat with me about it and tell me how I got it wrong, because this method is very definitive. There’s only one way to do the time series cohort analysis, and what it shows is very clear. And anybody who claims that it doesn’t show anything doesn’t really understand how to analyze data properly.

And so, look, I have an open invitation to any epidemiologist. Let’s have a discussion. But nobody wants to talk about it. In fact, the epidemiologists that agree with me tell me, hey, I can’t chat with you and give my support because I will be fired from my job if I do that. And so I can’t afford to speak to you because I need to provide for my family.

If I come and support you, I’ll be fired. And there’s one epidemiologist in an area of the world where he can’t get another job. So he’s like, totally support what you’re doing. You’re absolutely right. But I’m not really allowed to say a word because as an epidemiologist, I will be fired. It’s the same thing happening for doctors. Doctors are not allowed to speak out. If doctors speak out, they’re going to lose their license to practice medicine.

They could lose their job. Their family won’t talk. Family members won’t talk to them anymore. The whole thing, I mean, this is just terrible that we have people dying and we can’t talk about it. What do you think? Based on the numbers that you’ve seen and analyzed, the death toll is from the COVID vaccine worldwide, or how about worldwide and the US if you have those? Yeah, I mean, worldwide, it’s over 13 million people easily.

Denny Rancourt came up with 17 million people. And I don’t disagree with that at all. I think that’s a fair estimate, and that doesn’t surprise me at all. I know it’s at least 13 million. So 17 million isn’t a far stretch from that. And by the way, you did an excellent interview with Bret Weinstein. I thought it was one of Brett’s finest interviews. Ever. And you did just a spectacular job.

I agree with everything that Bret said. I listened to that interview very carefully. Everything that Bret said was spot on. I mean, it does raise a number of questions, some of them even philosophical questions, like, how can world governments kill more than 10 million people and leave some large, undetermined number disabled for life and not say a word about it, not apologize, not work to fix it, not work to make the families whole.

I mean, just leave it by the side of the road like a corpse and keep marching. I don’t understand that. How can that happen? Believe me, I’m surprised as know I can’t get an audience with anybody in the United States Congress except for Senator Ron Johnson. Like, I can’t have a dialogue. They won’t talk to me. Nobody wants to know. They don’t want to know the truth. It’s like autism in this country.

Autism has been around for a very long time, and we’ve known from the statistics that vaccines cause autism. It’s the leading cause of autism. Now can we even get a discussion about that? May I ask you to mean the statement you just made is mean. No person who wanted to say, work at the Atlantic magazine or who takes the New York Times on a daily basis would ever say something like that, because you’re not allowed to say that.

Tell us why you say that. It’s because it’s true. I’ve collected my own data just independently to look at the connection between vaccines and autism, and it’s amazing. I had over 10,000 parents tell me about their kids. And I said, hey, tell me about your kids. Tell me how many vaccines they’ve gotten. Tell me if they have autism. Tell me if they have ADHD. Tell me. Just tell me about your kids.

Tell me about the medical conditions, and tell me about how many shots they get. And it’s a straight line. The more shots you get, the more likely you are to get autism. And it’s the same thing for ADHD. It’s the same thing for panda pans. It’s the same thing for autoimmune diseases. Basically, the more shots you get, the less healthy the kids are. And this is very clear from the statistics.

And then people say, oh, Steve, you’re misinformation, super spreader. And your followers don’t believe in vaccines, but there’s no way that parents could have coordinated their answers to this question to create a straight line for all of these conditions, that the more vaccines you get, the greater your chance. I don’t care who my followers are. There’s no way that you can game a statistical result like that. So I know just from my personal surveys that there’s no way you could game something like this, that there is a connection.

But we have lots of data that is known by other researchers. There are lots of these papers, the publishing that are published showing the link between vaccines and autism. I know one doctor who, he had like 150 autism cases, and he said 44 of them happened relatively overnight, meaning that they happened within either the child was normal one day and then severely autistic the next day, or it happened over a one or two week period.

He said he had 44 cases where he had rapid onset autism. And in every single one of the 44 cases, it happened within two weeks after a vaccine. Now, that is statistically impossible if vaccines aren’t causing autism. One thing that’s always, and I’m willing to believe every single thing you say. And watching the response to Bobby Kennedy’s famous Rolling Stone article almost 20 years ago convinced me they were hiding something because the hysteria was just overwhelming.

But what’s so interesting is there are a couple of big autism advocacy groups. Well, there’s one big one. And they, quote, don’t take a position on this. And how could a group that supposedly advocates on behalf of children with autism and funds research to prevent autism or to alleviate the symptoms of autism, how could they ignore this? Well, they shouldn’t, but they do. And the reason that they do is because they’re worried about being essentially offending their donors, right? And what they want is they want to have the widest possible donors of donor base.

And I think that’s the reason. And it’s know. For example, there’s a guy, Richard Fry. He’s one of the top autism researchers in the world. And he’s admitted that, hey, all of us top autism researchers know that vaccines cause autism, but we’re just not allowed to talk about it. And so Richard Fry will never publicly talk about that vaccines cause autism, because if he did, his funding would go away.

And so it’s a matter of self preservation. He basically has to remain silent and he can do his work to combat autism. He just isn’t allowed to tell the world that vaccines cause autism. But he makes a decision, and his decision is based on sort of a risk benefit. The reasoning is, if I tell the world that vaccines cause autism, basically I’m kaput as a researcher, I will never get any dollars of funding again.

And I can’t help my patients. They’ll take my license away. They’ll take my funding away. They’ll destroy me. I will not be able to contribute anymore to figure out what the cure is. And so he basically remained silent for self preservation reasons. Now, if he and all of his peers were to get together and in unison say, hey, vaccines cause autism, we’re the 20 top researchers in the world.

Vaccines cause autism. We need to stop this. We need to let people know of the connection, then that could possibly change everything. Or it could result in those 20 researchers essentially being disenfranchised, being kicked out of their jobs, being not being able to help autistic kids anymore. And so it’s a risk for them, and so they don’t play the risk. And the problem is that we have so many kids today.

The CDC says it’s one in 35. I think it’s much higher than that because I’ve talked to friends and just polled my friends, I said, hey, do you have an autistic kid in your household? And it’s like one in four of my friends have an autistic kid in their household. And so these numbers are staggering. And the way to stop it is to realize that the whole vaccination program, the whole childhood vaccination program, you’re better off as a child not getting any vaccines at all than getting the whole childhood schedule.

And there have been papers on this that show that kids who got zero shots, they compare kids that are completely unvaccinated with kids who are fully vaccinated. There’s no comparison that the kids who are completely unvaccinated are far healthier than their vaccinated. You know, there’s a clinic in the United States, I’m not going to tell you where, because otherwise they’ll be shut down almost instantly. But this clinic has been basically not giving kids vaccines and explaining to parents the risk benefit of vaccines, and the parents are deciding not to vaccinate their kids.

There’s not been a single unvaccinated kid in their practice in 25 years, and this is tens of thousands of kids in 25 years, not a single case of autism, when they withhold the vaccines from the kids, and the kids are healthier. And so there are all of these studies in the peer reviewed literature comparing a completely unvaccinated kids with completely vaccinated kids, and they’re all in favor of the unvaccinated kids, not a single exception.

And so they tried to get the NIH to go and do a study to be the definitive study comparing fully unvaccinated kids with fully vaccinated kids, but they couldn’t even get the bill out of committee in Congress. They had nine co sponsors. It was in 2009. They had nine co sponsors, including, I think Rand Paul was a co sponsor of this. It was killed in committee. They couldn’t even ask the NIH force the NIH to do a study between the completely unvaccinated and the fully vaccinated.

So this has been going on for a long time, that they’ve been able to hide this stuff. They’ve been able to hide the connection between vaccines and autism. They’ve been able to hide the connection between vaccines and all of these diseases that kids have, the ADHD, the peanut allergies, the food allergies, any kind of autoimmune diseases. I mean, these things are totally linked with the vaccines. And you’d see it in the data.

And of course, the CDC knows this. Like, the CDC had a study, it was done in early 2000, and William Thompson was one of the authors of that study. And he admitted that the CDC basically told him to delete all data that linked vaccines and autism from his study so he could report that there’s no link between vaccines and autism. He was ordered to destroy data linking vaccines and autism.

And when they tried to get him to testify in Congress that he was ordered by his CDC superiors to destroy this data, Bill Posey, Congressman Bill Posey was basically told, look, you’re not going to have this hearing in Congress. We’re not going to let Bill Thompson testify. You’re not going to have your hearing. And if you insist on it, we’re going to take away all your committee chairmanships.

So it’s basically, they don’t want to see any of this stuff happening. They don’t want it exposed in Congress. Congress is complicit in this. It certainly. Let me, I’ve got two more questions for you. One, before I forget, if people have made it this far into the interview and want to know more about your research, the data you’ve uncovered, where will they find that? Sure, it’s kershubstack. com, kirsch substack.

com. And they can go there. You can also go to my Twitter feed and then it’ll link you to the, sorry, my X profile, St. Kersch, S T K I R S C H on X. And you can also go there as well. And I’ve written about probably over 1500 articles on vaccines and COVID mitigations and so forth. And there’s a lot of material there for people to go through.

And I’ve accumulated somewhere around a million followers worldwide on the social media platforms and substac and so forth. This leads exactly to my last question, which is, it’s just an amazing life arc that you’ve had. You said that not even three years ago you got vaccinated yourself. You were not afraid of vaccines. You were kind of hopeful that they would work. And now you’ve produced this enormous corpus of research showing just the opposite.

What has happened to your life? You a minute ago, talked about researchers, you know, who won’t go public for fear of having their lives destroyed. You’ve moved it in the opposite direction at a high speed. What’s happened to your life since you started doing this? We’d lost probably 95% of the friends who used to associate with us. Normally, they won’t talk to us anymore. It’s basically, we don’t want to talk to you.

You’re an evil person. Personal friends. Yeah. It’s the same thing with the scientific advisory board members. I said, look, hey, if I’m wrong, please tell me. Please engage with me and tell me where I got it wrong. And they said, no, you’re an evil person. We don’t want to talk to you. You’re wrong, and we don’t want to talk to you. You’re a bad person. My wife and I were given a national caring award because of our work with philanthropies.

We’re a big philanthropist. And so we received a national caring award in Washington, DC in a big ceremony. And the award was personally presented by Hillary Clinton. In my case, they had Senator Clinton give the award to us in DC. And I used to have that on my Wikipedia profile. Now, as soon as I came out and I said that the data shows that the vaccines are not safe, my national caring award was removed from my Wikipedia profile.

And it’s just an objective showing how, wow, people are basically trying to position you and to recast you as now this evil person who spreads misinformation when all you’re doing is telling the truth. So we lost about 95% of our friends. But I look at it and I say, look, I may have lost 100 or 200 friends, but I now have a million new friends. And I get stopped at airport saying, hey, are you Steve Kersch? And can I have a selfie with.

So I’ve gone from not being recognized in public to going anywhere in the world. And people will stop me and say, hey, can I take a selfie with you? And so it’s a pretty dramatic shift. I went from being a top high tech between. I used to be a high tech executive, respected high tech executive, and now I can’t talk to my high tech peers. They think I’m nuts.

And now you do a Google search and you search for misinformation. Super spreader. I’m the top hit. I never expected in my life that I would be the one thing that it would be different about me, the one unique thing that I would be the best in the world at that I would be the number one hit at Google on is misinformation. Super spreader. That is. Know I’m grateful.

At least I found my calling. At least I’m good at something. And it is great to be nationally recognized by Google as the top hit when you type in misinformation. Super. But you know, all I’m doing is I’m telling the truth. Yes. And it is so hard. Know, it’s just like Peter Hotez was offered millions of dollars to have a civil debate with Bobby Kennedy and Hotez turned it down.

Who would turn down a million dollars just to have a discussion with someone? Bobby Kennedy has been trying to get a debate on autism for 20 years. For 20 years he’s been trying to get somebody in the medical community to have a debate with. In 20 years, he’s not had a single debate with anyone in the medical community on autism. And it’s the same thing with Peter Hotez.

Everyone who is classed as a misinformation spreader or super spreader, they all want to have a civil debate and a dialogue to say, hey, this is what the data shows. If we got it wrong, please explain it to us. But there is nobody who is prominent on the pro vaccine narrative side who will agree to debate anyone on our side. So everybody challenging the narrative says, please, let’s have a civil discussion.

And the people on the other side are saying, no, we will not have a discussion with you. We will not engage with you. Let’s duke it out in the medical literature. And that is a cop out because we have been duking it out in the medical literature on autism for 20 years. There are more papers showing that vaccines cause autism than there are papers showing vaccines don’t cause autism.

Now, if we haven’t resolved that in 20 years in the medical literature, why do we think it’s suddenly going to happen for autism or for the COVID vaccines? That’s right, it’s not going to happen. The only way it’s going to happen is with civil dialogue where we’re allowed to say, hey, here’s the evidence, explain it. Here’s the evidence on our side. Let’s have the dialogue. But the dialogue has been turned into censorship.

And Bobby Kennedy made a brilliant observation. He says that the history has shown that anyone who uses censorship as a weapon, they’re always on the wrong side. They’re committing a crime by definition. That’s exactly right. Yeah. Well, I think I have included that you’re an amazing person and that you’re telling the truth. And I’m grateful that you spent this time with us, and I hope that you will come back.

Steve Kirsch, thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. .

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