This is a topic that I get asked about a lot, especially over the last few years of the Hogwash, where we have been dealing with people that simply many of them, it appears, cannot face the truth of our reality of what is really going on. And this is probably something that has gotten worse with time when you're dealing with difficult people. So I have ten tips that I want to share with you. 

I rarely ever make notes for my show because I am so kind of entrenched in what I'm teaching you and sharing with you that I could just go on for hours and hours. I tried to keep this at about 20 to 25 minutes. So today I did make some notes because there are so many important things that I want to cover with you. And these are some of the I would say not really attributes, but characteristics of difficult people. 

You probably can add to this list, but let me know who comes to mind. When you think of someone that is a contrarian, what does that mean? If you say yes, they say no. If you say right, they say wrong. If you say up, they say down. It's like our entire government is contrarian. That whatever the reality is, they want to spin it on its head. And sometimes people are contrarians just because they want to argue. 

And that's another one of these traits, is they're very argumentative, even for no reason whatsoever, and often over very insignificant things. You might be sharing a memory, and you remember that you went on a Wednesday and they thought it was a Thursday, and it has no significance or very little impact on what you're talking about, but they want to argue that point. So a contrarian. I'll give you a quick example. 

Years ago, back when travel was free and enjoyable, I went with my mom and my sister back to the Midwest where my mom and her family were from. And we actually went to the city of Chicago. And I remember pulling up we were a little bit early to check in for our hotel, and there were three of us, and we had three suitcases in the trunk. And as I pulled up, I said to the it was like a doorman that was greeting us. 

And I said, I know that we're here early, and I didn't know if we could just drop off the luggage because I didn't want it to get stolen when we were driving around the city or if I should come back. And he said, well, you really need to come back. We can't take your luggage now. And I said, oh, okay. Where should I turn around? And then he said, well, why are you turning around? I need to take your luggage. 

You know those people? That is 100% contrarian. And then when he opened the trunk, he said, well, how much luggage do you have? I'm like well, we have one bag for each person. Is that it? Is that all you brought? You know people like that. Yes. Years ago in college, I had a roommate who said, I can't believe that you have hardly any food in the refrigerator. And I'm thinking, well, I only buy what I need. 

This is back in the days before prepping. And then I thought about it. I said, you know, she's probably right. I should have more things on hand. I should have some fruit and yogurt and bread and who knows what. So I stocked up the refrigerator, and the next time she said, I can't believe you're so wasteful bringing in all that food when there's only one, because we shared the fridge. 

Like, oh, my gosh, that is a contrarian par excellence. So my husband and I have kind of a joke because there are some contrarians that we know and we just sort of I'm going to tell you how to deal with it in a moment. So contrarians that is, I would say, right at the top of my list for difficult people, because it's so insignificant and you're right there facing them and they're saying the exact opposite of what they just said, just to be argumentative. 

Difficult people also are very controlling. They want to control you. And friends, you know, we can't control anyone else except ourselves. And even that is sometimes difficult. Difficult people are critical, right. Condescending, meaning they're putting you down sometimes with a backhanded compliment, such as, oh, those are really nice shoes. Must be nice to be able to afford something like that. Or I haven't had a new pair of shoes and I don't know how long. 

It's like these weird condescending backhanded compliments. Difficult people can also be very self absorbed. They are never interested in you. You can have an entire conversation with someone and it's all about them, and they never even ask about you. I have a tip for that coming up in just a moment. Difficult people also often have a characteristic of zero empathy. That means they literally cannot put themselves in the shoes of someone else. 

They're not tender hearted. It's the exact opposite. They can't really feel what other people are going through, and as a result, they will dismiss it, saying, oh, it's not that big of a deal. Well, you should just get over it. There's just no empathy is the word. And I had a whole video called But First empathy, because that is so important in our natural interactions with other human beings and animals, and it actually smooths the way of our relationship. 

So I will leave a link for you below for that video, which I really think is an important one. Difficult people are very manipulative. They can use guilt and pressure to turn things around so that you are going to do what they want instead of what you want. And then adding on an additional layer is in the back of their mind they know that they manipulated you into doing it. 

So then you have the added layer of they don't even believe that you wanted to do it out of your own volition and you certainly didn't want to do it. So the whole interaction becomes very troubled and insincere. So controlling people can be very manipulative and often people like us that just don't want to make waves and we want to sort of go along with their demands. We kind of will do it and then we feel guilty about it. 

Can you see how the government is also you can replace difficult people with the difficult government. Of course. I never went along with whatever they required. Difficult people are prone to anger outbursts. They have very little ability for regulating and expressing their emotions appropriately. Valid anger is a natural, important, dare I say, essential emotion when it is in response to an injustice. We should be angry when we see child abuse. 

We should be angry if someone betrayed us or stole from us. We should be angry if someone lied to us or if we see animal abuse. Anger and indignation, which is kind of a frustration and irritation added onto anger. I feel indignation quite a bit. I would call it righteous anger but expressing it is the difference. You need to do it appropriately. You might not have an outburst in public. 

You're not going to harm anyone or any property. And then I've got videos where I talk about releasing your emotions and expressing them in an appropriate manner. So difficult people often can fly off the handle so you're walking around on eggshells. As I mentioned, the contrarian view point that goes along with somebody being very argumentative. Now contrarian is a little bit different because they'll just say the opposite of what they just said. 

It's kind of like they're messing with you whereas argumentative, they're just arguing with you on a point and they will not let up and often they're just doing it for the heck of it. They don't even really believe in their position. I know people like this that later would say oh, I just like to stir the pot. You just like to stir the pot? Well it's very awkward and uncomfortable and difficult so I'll help you with that in just a moment. 

Difficult people are also very defensive. Dare you say something along the lines of gee, I would like to choose where we go this time? Well, maybe that's not a good example, but they get very defensive if you challenge anything. And where does that leave us not challenging them? That's another one of their manipulative tactics. Controlling people and difficult people who are controlling often try to stir things around and stir the pot and steer things around so that they make it out to be that. 

You're the weird one. You're the one with the problems. You're the crazy one. You're the one that didn't get it right. And you're like, wow. I'm here facing reality. So that can be very, very challenging. And in a moment, I'm going to give you a couple of tips so that you know you aren't the crazy one, the difficult people. Another characteristic is they are very uncooperative. Just simple things like, hey, you asked them for something. 

Maybe you've been doing favors or you want to change something. They just don't seem to be able to cooperate on certain things. They want to do it their way or the highway. They're very unyielding. There's no give and take. There's no compromise. And along with that, they're very unavailable. Now, I had a neighbor some time ago, many years ago, and if this is the neighbor listening, it's not you. 

It's a different neighbor. And I had my little tiny puppy, Teddy. That was an abandoned little I thought she was an injured rabbit out there in the dirt, and everybody in the neighborhood just thought she was the cutest little thing. She was only a few weeks old, and at that time, I had four cats and a puppy. And because the puppy needed it's like an infant, it needs constant care. 

A few of my neighbors said, oh, if you ever need me to babysit Teddy, just let me know. I would love to take her. Well, there was one time when I was having some work done on the house, or something happened where I couldn't oversee Teddy, and I said, oh, my gosh, do you mind taking her for 45 minutes? Because somebody's coming. Oh, well, no, I'm not available. 

And then I thought, oh, that's so strange, because you said, anytime, and you're right next door in your home. And then another time, a little bit later, that happened again where the neighbor actually had a nice setup where Teddy could be. And I'm like, Why did you even offer? You are so not available. I would have paid them. I mean, it was just a neighborly thing, and they had offered. 

So there is another characteristic here's another one. Difficult people can be very evasive. They just won't give you a straight answer. I remember trying to meet up with somebody. This is like the cousin of a cousin's friend or whatever. And again, we were on a trip, and the cousin was going to come meet us. And I said, well, what kind of car do you have? So I would know as they're driving by, I would know whether to look for the white one or a truck or whatever. 

And he said, oh, I hate it when people ask me that. That's a weird answer. And I said, well, but what kind of car do you have? Oh, I'll see you. You can't just answer a direct question. How many of you know people like that? That goes along with they are unable to take responsibility, and it's sad, and I'm going to get to that point in just a moment. 

And at the same time of being evasive and never quite answering the question, you may ask about an opinion or what they thought or where they're going or where their trip is, and they never give you a straight answer. And again, you're left thinking, am I pushing too hard? Am I trying to be nosy? No, I just need to know what kind of car you're driving so I'll be able to see it when you drive by. 

I never did get what kind of car it was. The other strange thing about difficult people is they can be very entitled, and at the same time, they can criticize other people who have things. So they might feel entitled to the best schedule at work, to being at the front of the line. If you're ever in a public area, like maybe getting a service, and they'll sort of want things a certain way and they're not going to budge. 

They have this sort of entitlement mentality, and at the same time, they criticize other people. It's funny because here I am criticizing people, but this is for a learning lesson. And here's an example. I gave the example a little bit ago about, oh, well, who got a new pair of shoes? That's so weird. You can't just say nothing, or you can say, Those are so cute. Where did you get them? Oh, I'd love to have a pair like that. 

Now, I have friends that are like that. Well, haven't talked to one of them for three years, but she was one of the best at enjoying other people's joy. She never felt envious or jealous or entitled or put upon or condescending. She truly enjoyed the joy of others, and that was such a thrill and such a beautiful person to be around, because she would say, I love those. 

Oh, my gosh, let me try them on. And it was such a difference between somebody going, well, must be nice to be able to have a new pair of shoes. I haven't seen those before. Like, what's it to you? Oh, my gosh. I think you know what I'm talking about. Okay, we talked about they won't take responsibility. I know people like this. On the one hand, they want to control and make all the choices, and on the other hand, they don't want to commit because maybe it's wrong, and then they don't want to be wrong about the restaurant they chose or what time something opens. 

So again, that has to do with that evasiveness. All right, a couple more, then I'm going to tell you what you can do. You know what's sad about difficult people is often they hold on to grudges. I've got people that I know very well that held onto a grudge till the day they died, and I think that is so sad. Now, I did a video called Redemption, and it was such a well received video because I talked about not holding grudges and how to keep your heart open, how to pray for those that are suffering, how to pray for those that have persecuted you, and to hold a vision of a lovely reunion. 

And I hope that you will experience that in your life. Not holding a grudge does not mean that you weren't hurt, that what they did was wrong. It still means that you were hurt, that what they did was wrong. You don't approve of it. You don't condone it. And certainly it's very difficult to forget those things. But you're not holding a grudge. You're not allowing that to eat at you, and you're not preventing any healing from taking place. 

So I will do another video called how to Not Hold a Grudge. I may have done one previously, and I think it's time to do another one. The other thing, I think this is the saddest part of all. When it comes to difficult people, at least in my experience, so we've looked at all of those characteristics. But the saddest thing of all is most difficult people have no insight into their behavior. 

At least when I'm off the mark, I acknowledge it. I want to grow. I want to improve. I've had rants. I've flipped my lid. I've probably been snarky. I may have maligned others right here on my YouTube channels. There are things that I've said that I probably wish I hadn't. And I take that as a sign of maturity that I want to grow, that I can acknowledge these faults and flaws of my own and work to improve them. 

One of my favorite things. Well, I need to carve out more time for it, but I don't really like to read novels. I like to read self improvement. I want to grow. I want to develop. I want to have insights into my behavior. Why am I acting this way or reacting this way? So I think for difficult people, the saddest, most tragic aspect of their life is that not only do they have no insights, they're not interested in learning. 

By and large, this is a generality, a stereotype. And they certainly don't think that they need to improve or grow or change. So that's where we are with these difficult people. So what can you do? This is the crux of the video. But it's so important to really understand all those characteristics, so that when you're dealing with someone who checks and they don't have to check every single box, but here's what you can do. 

All right, number one, this is the most important of all. Don't take it personally. Oh, how hard is that? We want to take it personally. Why? Because we are empathetic people. We do believe that our actions and our comments and what we think and what we believe has an impact on others. We want to add positive value to other people's lives. So of course, we're going to be harmed a little bit. 

It's going to sting. I don't deny that when I get these angry comments on YouTube, it stings. Or when I had people on Facebook kind of write me off and cancel me, as the saying goes, I'm giving all these tips. But the fact of the matter is it stings. It stings. And it hurts to know that there are some people that didn't even want to know me enough, but just write me off right off the bat, who took the time to send vulgar, vile, hate filled text messages to me rather than email and say, hey, I saw this video. 

Is that really what you believe, or did I get it wrong? Where did you come up with that idea? That is a normal, mature conversation to have, and I'd be happy to have it. So it's difficult not to take it personally when somebody slings all of that at you or they treat you in the manner that I just described. So here's how you don't take it personally. Number two, remember that it's not about you. 

It's about them. They are a broken, hurt individual. I am not dismissing their behavior. I am not okaying it. I am not condoning it. I am not overlooking it. I'm acknowledging the root of their problem. If you could trace it back, I guarantee you they had deficits in their childhood or at a young age. They were told that they didn't matter, not even told they were ignored. They never had their due. 

Maybe they had an example of a parent that was critical, controlling, condescending, and all of these things that we looked at, maybe that was their example. Maybe they learned it along the way. Maybe they had physical abuse. Maybe they had mental, emotional abuse. Maybe they grew up in a household where there was alcoholism or a single parent, or even worse. So I'm not condoning it and I'm not excusing it, but I am acknowledging that somewhere along the way, this person has been broken by evil. 

And that is number three, increase your empathy toward them. So don't take it personally. It's not about you, it's about them. So that actually makes it a little easier because you can take the pressure off yourself, like you're holding up a mirror and it's just pointing back at them. You increase your empathy. And I will actually say things like, that is so sad. I'll say it quietly in my own mind like, that is so sad. 

Or how difficult it must be to have these characteristics. Or I'll say things like, I'm so glad I'm not that way. That actually makes me feel better. So I will have these little phrases like, oh, I feel so bad for them that that's how they are. And that takes a little of the sting out of it. Number four is I will actually do a silent prayer. And it's very simple, and it says, Help them, Lord. 

Help them. Lord, help them grow. Lord, help them heal. Lord, help them learn. Lord, help them. Lord, this helps me when I do it because I don't have to do it alone. I put it off to God. He is the source of all healing, of all growth, of all development. And so if he is in on it and I can direct my tension upward and heavenward, rather than forward at that person, it just alleviates a little bit of the, oh, here we go again. 

And I can breathe. I'm going to stand in my confidence and say to myself, oh, that is so sad. Help them, lord, help them. I'm so glad I'm not like that. Number five, you're going to stand your ground. And this is where we're going to get into a little bit of the nuts and bolts. So let's say that a person says, I just cannot believe that you spend your time on YouTube, for example. 

Somebody might say that. I mean, really, you're putting yourself out there and people are seeing you. I could never do that. So instead of agreeing right with the person, that's kind of pushing and critical. A simple phrase such as, well, it may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to me. Isn't that brilliant? Just write that down, have it in your back pocket. You can use that for anything. 

Somebody may criticize where you live or the car you drive, or why you have children or don't have children, or why you have animals and what kind of animal, and oh, I just don't understand people that have large dogs, something like that. Well, it may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to me. They can't argue with that, although they will try. You can also say, I hear you. 

This suits me. This suits me, this suits me. You're going to stand your ground. Going back to the point about the person being so self absorbed that they never ask you how you're doing or what you're up to. I had again, not recently, over the last few years, because I haven't been in touch with some of these people. But I remember being at a gathering and this was a pattern over and over and over. 

And the people there is like a little group of people, and they would talk about everything that they're doing, all the trips they're going on, all the books that they read, all the basketball games they went to, everything they cooked, all of their book clubs and all of that. Never asked me about my life, what I'm doing. They may say, how are things going? Not even that. It was just a constant look at me. 

And that's another sign of their actually insecurity. And they feel like they're not enough. So here's my favorite way of approaching that. Like you're just being dumped on by the person. So when they take a breath, here's what I say. Thanks for sharing. Would you like to hear what I have to say? Thanks for sharing. Or wow, you've been doing a lot. Would you like to hear what I've been up to? Now, friends, I don't want you to miss the most important part here. 

You are asking them a question, and they have to either say yes or no. And now you've put them on the spot. They have to say, no, I'm not interested in hearing about your life. They have to claim it. They have to admit it. I just think it's perfect. Or they have to open the door and they have to say, yeah, what have you been up to? And now you have your entree. 

Don't start talking about yourself. This is my experience, unless you pose that question. Would you like to hear what I have to say? Would you like to hear what I've been up to? Would you like to hear my opinion? Would you like to hear my perspective? Would you like to know what I think about that? Don't tell them what you think about it until you ask them. I'm telling you, this is a game changer. 

Now, if they're pushing, pushing. Sometimes I'll say this phrase, thanks for sharing. That's a perspective I hadn't considered before. I'm not agreeing with them, and I'm not flipping the switch of the contrarian for them to argue with me, because I'm not saying I disagree. I'm saying I hadn't thought about that. Inside, I'm thinking, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. But I am honestly saying that's a perspective I hadn't considered before. 

I've used that phrase in emails in social media. It's sincere, it's honest, and it does open the door for more conversation. A couple of other phrases along these lines is, I will say things like, very interesting. That's not how I see it. And you just leave it. You let it hang. And then they're like, well, how do you see it? Now you've got a conversation going because, remember, they're so self absorbed, they don't even know how to have a dialogue in most cases. 

And then you can also say, well, that's very interesting. My experience has been different. Can they argue with your experience? Well, they probably will try, but your experience is your experience. And again, I will do this a lot in writing. I will email someone or I'll even put a comment on social media, and I'll say, My experience has been different. I see milky skies. Seven out of eight days. 

How do you like that? My reality says there's eight days a week. You have to live in it. All right. I identify as having an eight day week. All right? So those are some phrases that can be very helpful. All right. Number six, you need to maintain to treat yourself with the dignity, respect, interest, support, and care that you are seeking from them. Friends, here is a truth that I have learned in my life. 

If you can take away one thing from this video, it's this. No one. No spouse, no child, no friend, no pastor, no parent, no coworker, no best friend, no one. In my view, this is my experience, can ever give you the full level of respect, care, interest and support that you can give yourself so long. We are waiting for others to buoy us up, to tell us, add a boy, add a girl. 

You did it. You're fantastic. I can't believe it's. Awesome. You need to tell yourself, while this is going on and the person is being condescending and uncooperative and contrarian and difficult, you're going to be standing in your dignity and you're going to be breathing. The other image I had, you know, all those ridiculous plexiglass that they had everywhere, they're still up, like at the bank and stuff. So the plexiglass maybe they were always at the bank. 

I don't know. The plexiglass, imagine this is a good use for it. All the things they're saying to you, they can't get through because you got that plexiglass. You are protected, and you are protected. You're protected by your own dignity, your own integrity. No one can take that away from you. Practice this. And this goes with the next one, which is number eight. I'm sorry, which is number seven. 

Decide who you want to be in this scenario. You know, you're going to be meeting this difficult person. Maybe it's a boss, a coworker. That is very difficult because you are required to be with them. So maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a child, a sibling. You decide, who do I want to be with this difficult person? Do I want to be drawn into their clutches? Do I want to rise above it? Do I want to practice being calm and confident and relaxed? Do I want to hold my ground? Do I want to push back? You decide who you want to be and then you need number the next one. 

Number I think it's number eight. You need to practice that feeling, that persona. That who you are. You're going to practice that in advance. This was one of the best tips that I ever got from someone years ago, when I would have frequent interactions with a difficult person. And I was frustrated, how can I change that person? And this wise woman said, well, you can't change the person, but you can change you. 

And she asked me, who do you want to be? How do you want to feel? And I thought, well, I want to feel at ease. I want to feel relaxed. I want to feel interested and engaged. And she said, You've got to create that on your own. So try that on for size. All right, so the last two, I think these are so easy. Number nine, you're going to seek out others who are positive and uplifting, even though you need to spend time or. 

Maybe you don't need to. But even though you are confronted with these difficult people, seek out those that uplift you. That's what I hope to do here on this channel. I want to add positive value to your life. I want you to come here and feel like you can have breathe a sigh of relief that you're going to leave feeling empowered, that you'll have a can do atmosphere and attitude. 

You know those people and I love being around those people. When I am with a positive person, it's like we lock eyes and we're, oh my gosh, it's so fun to be with you. We just uplift and encourage each other. And I have met resistance. Isn't it interesting? From the difficult people who criticize my Positivity, who tell me that it's insincere. And Pastor David has done videos on his own and even on my channel where he says, what you see is what you get. 

I remember early on in the healthy American days, I had somebody giving these backhanded compliments, oh, you're so full of energy. You must be exhausted after you do the videos. Oh, it must be hard for you to get ready and get yourself pumped up for the videos or the public speaking, because I know you can't be like this all the time. And I'm like how actually Pastor David jumped in. 

He's like, how can you even draw a conclusion about somebody that you don't even know and that you think that she's one way on the screen and a different way in life? So again, that person never had a role model, apparently of someone that was sincerely cheerful and optimistic and positive. But I am realistic and I do express my whole range of emotions. But my default is, where do we go from here? My default is optimism and determination. 

Optimism. Can't wait to see the good that comes from this determination. There's always another way and I'm going to find it. I am marching it all the way to heaven. You've heard those phrases again and again from me if you've watched my videos for any length of time. So seek out those people. And if it's me and it's our weekly get together or where we talk about all the ups and downs and the breaking news and Peggy to the rescue, I always strive to find solutions. 

I don't always have them. Sometimes there are problems and I need your help to help solve those. But find those people. Seek them out. And the last tip goes hand in hand. Limit the amount of time and energy and effort that you exert with these difficult people can't change them. They can change themselves. You can be an example, you can be an inspiration to them. They may see you and how you live your life and maybe you are listening and going, you know what, Peggy? I'm the difficult person here. 

Everything you said applies to me and I don't want to live that way anymore. I do want to break down some of these points in a little more detail, but I wanted to give you an overview today because so many of you have been asking me how you can get along with people in your life that are difficult. And when you know that, you can't change them. But you have power within yourself to stand your ground, to increase your empathy, to be who you are and feel how you want to feel, regardless of the scenario and the situation. 

That in and of itself is powerful. And you can stand in your power. And this will prevent you from giving your power away to those difficult people. Pray for them. My heart goes out to them. And then minimize your time with them. I love talking about boundaries. We will continue talking about that because it is a game changer in your life. I think it's too difficult, actually, to be negative. 

I think being negative is really hard. I would much rather err on the side of Positivity was with a small group of new people, and I said something like, oh, I just mentioned people will talk about, oh, if you had your dream vacation, where would you like to go? And so on and so forth. And I mentioned, oh, I would love to do this city tour. And instead of the person saying, oh, that sounds fun, or Why do you want to do that? Immediately shot down, oh, I hate that city. 

I would never want to go there. Why would you want to go there? I live there. Oh, my gosh. Completely poking my balloon, poking holes in my balloon. It's like, leave that a little bit later and at least ask a question like, oh, what makes you curious about that? Or I've lived there. Would you like to know what I think about it? Remember, you're always asking if people want to hear your opinion, especially the difficult ones. 

So that's where it's not up to you to fix them. It's up to you to be an example of a balanced, rational, emotionally mature person. And again, it's like 80 20. All right, I think we can have the 20% rants. And no one is perfect. Narcissism is on the rise. I think that is part and parcel of how the direction our society is going. People are sadly, children were not raised by their parents. 

Maybe one parent. I know families come in all shapes and sizes. However, there's a reason why God gave us an example of a family with a mom and a dad. And even if you had a mom and a dad, they may not have given you the care and the attention that you need shipped off to the public schools where you're spending more time with the government than you are your family. 

There are so many reasons why this happens. People often want to be listened to and heard. So the video I have first Empathy, I think it's called, but First Empathy. That is where we talk a lot about reflecting back and how to have these conversations. And I have so many suggestions from you. You can email me support@thehealthyamerican. org, and I also read your comments. These are challenges that I'm going through. 

So I like to dig and sort of uncover and unearth the tips and the tools, the techniques, the strategies, the solutions, the resources, the remedies, as I like to say, for moving ahead in these difficult times and with the difficult people. I'm feeling so much better these days that the cooties conversation is somewhat abating. And I know there are so many other things that we need to turn our attention to, but the number one thing that you need to turn your attention to is the care of your soul, of your spirit, of yourself, meaning your body, your health, your intellect, your social environment, the people that you're with. 

All of this is part of building the type of life that you want to live, that you deserve, that you dream of. And I've done videos in the past also talking about designing your life. So let's continue to move ahead. There are brighter days out there, smoother sailing, and can't wait to experience it. Thank you, everybody. Difficult people need love, too. They absolutely need love, understanding, empathy. What they don't need is our opinion on how to change, because that's not up to us to do so we have found information, resources. 

They can do the same. It's actually better for them to seek it out on their own, on their own terms, on their own time. And you can pray and hold that vision for them in the future. This did go a little longer, even though I had my notes. So great to be with you live. All right, thanks, everybody, for being on board and signing off for now, and I look forward to seeing you in the very next video. 

Bye. .